Rf shock angle

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  • hunterracing
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 303

    #1

    Rf shock angle

    Does moving the rf shock out farther on lower aframe soften or stiffen it thanks
  • RaceEngineer
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2018
    • 482

    #2
    Originally posted by hunterracing View Post
    Does moving the rf shock out farther on lower aframe soften or stiffen it thanks
    Stiffens the wheel rate. Spring compresses more for same wheel movement. Would require softer spring for car to act the same.

    Comment

    • JLyons
      Junior Member
      • Feb 2014
      • 17

      #3
      Is that theory or you seen on a pull down rig? Also is that just moving the shock out on the bottom or having a wide RF option and moving it all out?

      Comment

      • RaceEngineer
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2018
        • 482

        #4
        Originally posted by JLyons View Post
        Is that theory or you seen on a pull down rig? Also is that just moving the shock out on the bottom or having a wide RF option and moving it all out?
        Don't need pull down rig, it's geometry. We are talking moving shock on the bottom.

        Comment

        • keeks
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2008
          • 687

          #5
          I've been wrong before, but I think it's the other way around no? Add angle lowers wheel rate/spring rate?

          Comment

          • RaceEngineer
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2018
            • 482

            #6
            Originally posted by keeks View Post
            I've been wrong before, but I think it's the other way around no? Add angle lowers wheel rate/spring rate?
            The angle change isn't squat compared to the motion ratio change

            Comment

            • hunterracing
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 303

              #7
              We moved the spring out to outer hole same spring rate and could tell it wanna roll on rf as much

              Comment

              • RaceEngineer
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2018
                • 482

                #8
                Originally posted by hunterracing View Post
                We moved the spring out to outer hole same spring rate and could tell it wanna roll on rf as much
                Less likely to bend your lower as well.

                Comment

                • billetbirdcage
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2007
                  • 2020

                  #9
                  RaceEngineer is correct the change in motion ratio of the lower mount over comes the angle change by a ton, so you still get a softening by going inboard or stiffer going outboard (assuming you get an angle change from NOT moving the upper mount)

                  If you want the math the see how much, here it is:

                  19" lower - 3" and 4" coilover mounts from the ball joint - 18 degree starting angle on the coilover in the outer hole (is 15* in inner hole) - 18" pin to pin measurement on coilover at ride hieght - travel is 4" at ball joint

                  4" movement at Ball joint the coilover compresses to:

                  outer hole: start 18.0" and ends at 14.702" = 3.298" for 4" at BJ
                  inner hole: starts at 17.716" and ends at 14.586 = 3.13" for 4" at BJ

                  If you want to do total motion ratio with coilover angle figured in: (note I'm not calculating the motion ratio at the wheel only the BJ

                  outboard hole = .801
                  inner hole (but keep angle the same by moving top mount also) = .751
                  inner hole (don't move upper - is a 3 degree change) = .763

                  keeks is correct that the angle change does stiffen the total motion ratio .012 but the leverage change on the lower makes a bigger difference for an over all change .049 - .012 = .038 change

                  Comment

                  • keeks
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2008
                    • 687

                    #10
                    This place is great. Thanks BBC.

                    Comment

                    • JLyons
                      Junior Member
                      • Feb 2014
                      • 17

                      #11
                      Awesome, I only have one location on my lower, but can the same be said on the RF if you moved the Rf upper and lower out 1” but kept the same mounting location at the top of the Shock?

                      Comment

                      • billetbirdcage
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2007
                        • 2020

                        #12
                        You are still going to soften the rate at the wheel do to the increased angle of the coil over. I'm too lazy to do the math but any motion ratio calc will show you the difference by plugging in the right dims and just change the coil over angle. It's probably around 1 to 3% change

                        Comment

                        • JLyons
                          Junior Member
                          • Feb 2014
                          • 17

                          #13
                          So just got confused, so let’s say you are narrow rf and you move to wide rf, do you soften the spring rate to get the car to react the same? Like if you stayed the same rate you would be too stiff being out wide?

                          Comment

                          • billetbirdcage
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2007
                            • 2020

                            #14
                            Hyperco's spring rate calculator helps you find the specs you need for automotive suspension springs and wheels.


                            Plug the numbers in to get the motion ratio (A - B - spring angle is all you need to enter)

                            If you move the lower out 1" that changes the coilover angle, .0175" per inch is one degree so if you move 1" then 1 / .0175 = 57.14 then say you coilover pin to pin is 18" then divide the 57.14 by the 18.0 = 3.177 degree change. So change the degree to 3 degrees more and recalc to get new motion ratio

                            It's going to be roughly 1.5% softer so on a 300# RF spring it's 4.5# softer, which isn't enough to worry about since I don't think they make a 295.5# spring, lol.

                            *Note this is only rate, it does not account for any rollcenter or anything else that might change the way the car rolls.

                            Comment

                            • hunterracing
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 303

                              #15
                              Does the affect the same as bottom if you move it out or in at top on rf

                              Comment

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