Birdcage, Bar position?

[Kromulous]

Yeah i would like to know that to Hunterracing, its something i havnt gotten a lot of answers on so just gonna try it LOL!

Also, if these are the bar postions for zero index, top back, bottom fwd, then what is it that the XR1s are running? The ones i look over, the top bar is fwd, and the bottom bar is aft. Seems like that would still be a zero index deal, with a shorter steeper instant center, and thrust angle?

[hunterracing]

I would think if you raised top to 5.5 then lowered the bottom to 5.5 it would kinda equal it self out but guess depends on bar location on frame but not sure I’m right bout it. Wehrs saids raising on cage to 5.5 upper will make tighter in and looser off

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Yeah i would like to know that to Hunterracing, its something i havnt gotten a lot of answers on so just gonna try it LOL!

Also, if these are the bar postions for zero index, top back, bottom fwd, then what is it that the XR1s are running? The ones i look over, the top bar is fwd, and the bottom bar is aft. Seems like that would still be a zero index deal, with a shorter steeper instant center, and thrust angle?

Ignore where the bolt is compared to other holes. Where are the two birdcage attachment points in relationship to each other? Don't forget the coilover attachment point is working in an arch too.

[cjsracing]

I've been playing with this a lot in the shop lately. Isn't the point of zero index to get more bar angle without over indexing?

[Kromulous]

Yeah, and to keep some compliance with the shock to the track, keep rubber on the road so to speak.

I mapped it out on paper, and the XR1 way seems to allow you more upper bar angle, and still be zero index. It brings the Instant center closer to the rear end, and more upward angle. Plus less lower bar angle, which potentially could allow you to run more droop overall, or with less rear steer. Bar lengths would change, 1" longer lower, 1" shorter upper, so the split in lengths could be closer if you wanted that, depends on your 4 bar plates.

Or am i off in my thinking? LOL wont be the first time...

[Jking24]

The xr1 keeps the bar lengths the same the whole top bar is moved rearward and the bottom is moved forward at ride height. The shock location and the indexing are virtualy unchanged. Basically it just clocks the starting point back

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The xr1 keeps the bar lengths the same the whole top bar is moved rearward and the bottom is moved forward at ride height. The shock location and the indexing are virtualy unchanged. Basically it just clocks the starting point back

That's one of the deals out there. And what everyone was first calling "zero index". Krom is right there are deals out there using the most front hole on the cage, yet are still 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock at full hike. I'm not sure how those are set up. And I've seen that on rockets as well.

[Kromulous]

Spent all weekend at the North South, looked at every XR1 there and there are all on it. Top bar FWD 1", Bottom bar AFT 1" with the birdcage straight up and down at full droop, not the bolts, the cage is straight up and down. Top bar ends up with some extreme angle in it, and the bottom is somewhat neutral.

Still looking into it.

[Kromulous]

Double post, but i will end up trying it soon.

[Jking24]

Spent all weekend at the North South, looked at every XR1 there and there are all on it. Top bar FWD 1", Bottom bar AFT 1" with the birdcage straight up and down at full droop, not the bolts, the cage is straight up and down. Top bar ends up with some extreme angle in it, and the bottom is somewhat neutral.Still looking into it.

Not sure i follow you 100% are you talking about on the cage or the chassis. Their are three sets of holes on each

[Kromulous]

I am speaking of the birdcage holes, fwd set on the top, back set on the bottom. I didnt pay attention to the chassis side.

IF there keeping the bar lengths the same, would make since to have 3 sets of holes on the chassis plates.

Can anyone see this image?

[hunterracing]

If the top bar gives the tire more drive instead of raising up on cage can you not just lower the bottom
To 5.5 and lower it on frame wouldnt this give car more drive and keep it straighter off corner?

[Jking24]

I am speaking of the birdcage holes, fwd set on the top, back set on the bottom. I didnt pay attention to the chassis side. IF there keeping the bar lengths the same, would make since to have 3 sets of holes on the chassis plates.Can anyone see this image?

Can't see the image but that is the "standard position" for a xr1 top bar all the way forward bottom all the way back it can be deceiving because the way the birdcage plates are cut. It looks like they are at six and twelve at full drop but they are not. That being said the xr has alot less indexing then the older stuff when all bars, lengths and positions are standard .

[dirtdobberrr]

Listen guys, I fancy myself a setup guy. I do not have alot of experience driving, I did drive a bomber car for 2 years, but I did not have time to work 50 hours a week and race, so 12 years ago I choose to concentrate on helping others with their cars. I feel that I am above average at observing a car of any class go around the track, and I also very much enjoy 3/4 link cars and discussing what makes them work. The first thing I noticed about the Longhorns/xr1's/later cvr'sl capitals was that they rolled the middle of the corner on the throttle MUCH better than the stuff before them. Since the late 1990's, the 4 bar stuff was extremely tight from the middle out. I the 1990's they were almost drag cars that raced twice per lap, on dirt. The newer stuff rolls the middle and out much better on the throttle, which can only be due to a few things............softter effective right front spring rate, and/or more rebound rate on the right front...........or less left rear drive, caused by less left rear drop as measured by total number of left rear drop in inches, or murch more left rear rebound rate, which causes the left rear to drop much more slowly as throttle is applied. Add to this the addition of right front bump stops, and one pretty much has the magic of all these new chassis out there. There are some aero related things that have changed, and rear weight % is probably 5-6% less than it was, and right side is probably down 4-5 percent, and most are running the lift bar spring (5trh coil) back 3-6 inches less than they were 6 years ago. That is pretty much your modern $40,000 late model chassis vs one from 5 years ago. If I am wrong, tell me I am wrong. Also, the modern car bodies are tappered pretty much as much as the rules are allowed, and i mean the (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)pit is lower, the front end is more narrow, the right front nose piece has been move down as much as the dynamic roll will allow. If I did not work 50+hours a week driving a fuel truck, I would build "Bubba's Fast Ass Chassis". But since I am poor and work alot, I can only reach a few, and only a few of these will listen, most have drank the cool aid and they believe that only the people on tv can help them. Tell me that I am wrong.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Are you saying guys are running less than 50% left side weight?