RF shock.

[keeks]

I got some great answers to a post a while back about bottoming out the rf shock using a 2 piece lower. ie: lower shock mounting position on the one piece.

My question is, can you get the same shock travel back by raising the upper mount position? Or will this mess up front end geometry and cause other problems?

The upper mount is buggered anyways, so I was thinking about raising it when I weld the new one on.

[jrkracing54]

I got some great answers to a post a while back about bottoming out the rf shock using a 2 piece lower. ie: lower shock mounting position on the one piece.

My question is, can you get the same shock travel back by raising the upper mount position? Or will this mess up front end geometry and cause other problems?

The upper mount is buggered anyways, so I was thinking about raising it when I weld the new one on.

Not sure what chassis you are running but I'm pretty sure Outpace makes one piece lowers for the right front that lower the shock mount to help with this exact problem. Hope this helps. John 1*

[charcoal01]

Don't raise your rf shock mount. You're changing the spring table and with affect the handling of the chassis.

[Matt49]

The wheel does not know where the upper shock mount is. It only feels force in one direction. The only thing you can possibly change my moving the upper shock mount is the angle. More angle will result in less wheel rate.
Moving the lower shock mount can change angle and/or motion ration. Motion ratio is the distance between the lower shock mount and the control arm heim on the frame divided by the distance between the ball joint and the control arm heim on the frame. The bigger the motion ratio, the higher the wheel rate.

The only reason there is any angle in the shock/spring on A-arm suspended cars is to make it so that the angle changes as little as possible in its travel.

Motion ratio has a huge effect on wheel rate. Understanding that math behind it helps a bunch.

[keeks]

Thanks everyone. Matt49, great info. I love math. But this whole front end geometry is overwhelming. I need to start a work book I think.

[hucktyson]

The only man on this planet capable of answering this question is none other than Brian " Gay " Gray !!

[Matt49]

The only man on this planet capable of answering this question is none other than Brian " Gay " Gray !!

Please take this bullsh!t back to the gossip section where it belongs.
If you have a beef with Brian Gray, I suggest you call him. He's not a hard person to find or get in touch with. Why don't you man up and give him a ring or stop by his shop?

Personally, I don't know him outside of 4m and don't need to. I know he has some ideas that I think are interesting and some that I think are crazy. But nothing constructive comes from injecting this type of rhetoric into a thread that could be very informative to those wishing to learn about their race cars.

There used to be MANY more intelligent minds that posted in this tech section. Posts like this are the reason many of them have found better things to do.

[hucktyson]

My problem with him is that he spews his absurd BS on here acting like he has a shop full of 5 figure checks hanging on his walls. Guys come
On here looking for legit advice and he feeds them non stop nonsense which can possibly cause them to get discouraged and quit all together . Morons like him posting are a cancer in the sport we all love.

[jedclampit]

If the intent here is to raise the top shock mount, up, to allow for more travel before bottoming out the shock, then it will change the chassis's Leverage, move the botttom down with a mount relocation......

My tooscents!

[HEAVY DUTY]

Raising the top mount should make it harder for the weight to get over on the RF, same as if you raised the RR shock mount

[Brian Gray]

the nonsense? really. ask some of the people that come to my business for help racing if i feed them nonsense. my credentials speak for itself. they wouldnt keep comming back for nonsense.

i wasnt going to weigh in on this one because there are so many opinions about shock mounting but here is what i know and when i design a front end or rear for that matter this is the physics i refer to.

the car only knows what happens at the tire with that said the angle the shock is mounted at will surely effect the wheel rate so yes you could move the mount up without changing handling. as far as the leverage goes that is relative to CG center of gravity and the roll center location. i know of teams that have played with the so called spring table but there is no evidence to show this effects the handling of the car.

look at it like this if you have a rope and you hang a 10 lb weight from it. no matter where you attach the weight you still have 10 lbs plus the rope at the attachment point.

weight transfer is only relative to the length of the moment arm in the suspension. shock mountings will not change that.

now if thats misinformation i'm sorry . and btw if im always so wrong you can always present the facts that prove it!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

There is no question spring table matters on the non- independent rear of the car. The front, I am not so certain.

[bb14]

Changing from the top shock hole to the lower shock hole on a Rocket changes the spring rate but according to Rocket not enough to worry about. I had this same question when running high camber with the A-arm hitting the shock. I called Rocket for a solution and was told that a lot of teams are running in the lower hole. The main thing to remember is that you will lose shock travel when doing this. You need a different lower. You can do the math to see the difference and adjust around it.

Maybe the added leverage is why they do this??? I doubt it but a thought!

On another note I believe Ruhlman offers a new shock mount that requires welding.

[Brian Gray]

yes in the solid axle rear of the car the shock mounting points would change some things since they have influence on rear roll center.

[latemodels4life]

Pot calling the kettle black????

My problem with him is that he spews his absurd BS on here acting like he has a shop full of 5 figure checks hanging on his walls. Guys come
On here looking for legit advice and he feeds them non stop nonsense which can possibly cause them to get discouraged and quit all together . Morons like him posting are a cancer in the sport we all love.

Hucky it sounds like you are explaining your self. whats up with that. P.S. Cant wait to see you race