Terrible push getting in

[js11]

seems like too much RR sping. Try running the rear springs at equal rates (or within 20 lbs) and put 50/50 shocks on the LF and RR corners. That will loosen you up going in and might give you more drive coming out.

[dirttrackrocker]

Thats kinda what Im doing. the 275 on the RR comes out to 190 on the swingarm. I have had guys tell me not to go by that and just go with what I would put on if it was on the Bird cage. I dropped to a 200 on the RR and I'm going to drop the J bar on the frame side and see what that does. If that doesn't work I might go up to an 800 on the RF

[washeduptoo]

Are your lower A-arms metric or nova? Mr. Adams(Lighning chassis) in another thread explained the motion ratio and how it works, you might be right, need heavier front springs. I think he recommend 900lf and 1050 rf. Let us know how things go and best of luck.

[Flyin Iowan]

left side weight seems low

[dirttrackrocker]

Thats because I weigh 270... They said for someone 250 + you should be between 51 and 51.5

[js11]

OK. I assumed the spring was on the axle tube (hence 200 or 225 rate suggestion). You probably don't want the same rate on the swing arm as you would have on the birdcage (way too stiff). I've run anything from a 375, to 400, to 425 lb spring on the swing arm on the RR (at 43% of advertised rate is 162, 172, 182 lbs on a 15" swing arm mounted/z-link) with a four bar LR (spring front or behind). Of course that calculation is based on how far away from the bird cage the spring is mounted.

I also think 51% leftside is light. If you could scale the car while sitting in it, try 53 or 54% that might help. Also, your offset wheel choices on the RF and LR might help.

[dirttrackrocker]

I have a 16" swing arm and the spring is mounted 11" from chassis mounting point. I had a 275 on there which according to the calculator on the dirt forum it was 190. I dropped down to a 250. I also put an 850 in the RF and dropped J bar on frame. Wheel offsets are what GRT recommends, 2" everywhere except RR which is 3". Left side with me in it is 53.7. LR is 4 bar spring behind shock in front. I found a problem while making these changes. The Eliminator on the LR was binding where it mounted to the birdcage, it actually bent the bird cage. I replaced the birdcage and put a clevis mount on it so it doesn't bind. Hopefully all these changes fix the problem. Thanks for all the help, I'll post the results after this weekend. IF the weather doesn't put a damper on things...

[dualdj1]

yeah bent birdcage could cause all kinds or probs. Best of luck, I think you'll be in good shape (or at least loose instead of tight)

[js11]

Yup. That sounds like it could be a culprit. Good Luck.

[HEAVY DUTY]

The dirt forum calculator isnt right.They left out a step.Whatever the percentage is you have to square it (times it by itself)Like JS11 said it should be about 43% of the spring on a 15" swingarm which means you need a 400 to 450 RR spring.A swing arm is also digressive in rate because the front of the swingarm moves down(away from the spring) as the rear moves up into the spring.

[28m]

A bunch of good suggestions above. Let me add and confirm a couple.

When you said it gets tighter when you hit the brakes...you have issues up front. I am guessing your ride heights up front are off. Triple check to make sure you have the correct angles in the uppers on both sides. Again, Im guessing you dont have enough angle in the upper RF a arms OR you are too low and it is bottoming our or binding. Try lowering your front ride hights like 4 turns. Hot lap it and stab the brake getting in and see if it is worse or better. If not better, try the opposite...go up 8 turns (4 to get back where you were). From my experience, what you are describing when you hit the brakes is all up front.

I think your left side is too light as well.

You can increase your LR bite to loosen the car getting in OFF THE GAS.

The next test is to play with your entry to see if it tight on the gas getting in and or if it is tight off the gas getting in. Each adjustment you make REALLY depends on how you get in...on the gas or off the gas. Each adjustment is exactly the opposite depending on your entry style.

LOL, no one said this was easy

[dirttrackrocker]

I agree it's a front end problem. I made sure my ride heights are where GRT says. Last week I lowered RF 4 turns to see if it helped. It didn't. Didn't try going up. Put it back where it was for this week and went to an 850 in RF. I'm thinking that, coupled with fixing the bind in the LR suspension will at least be a step forward. I think after reading the suggestions above, I am gonna go back to the heavier spring that I had in the RR.

[28m]

A heavier RR spring will loosen you up getting in ON THE GAS but tighten you up coasting in or on the brakes. I think it might make it worse for you to tell you the truth. Stay focused on the front. That is likely where the problem is. Bad shock...something.

I had a Dirt Works years ago that needed a ton of ride height up front to turn. If I remember right, they called for like 6 inch RF and 5.75 LF. When I had it close to that it pushed like a freight train on the brakes getting in. I raised it up from reason only God knows, and it was incredible. Up to like 7" plus. I know it sounds crazy but it worked.

[dirttrackrocker]

I'm talking about going back to what I had. I had a 275 on the swing arm, and went to a 250. I'm thinking that might be too soft. Thanks for all the help, I know some things to try now..

[cullen17racing]

i would add timing into both birdcages. i would start with 2 turn out of the upper bars and 2 into the bottom. this should free your entry considerably and will tighten your exit. also as others said move the j-bar up on the pinion and have a maximum of 3 inch split from where it mounts on the frame and pinion. i promise you will enjoy the results!