wont turn going in

[Mosidebite]

If your talking about rr on axle tube with the spring behind lr, we have. Didn't run it very long before going 4-4, couple of races. We did run the rr bar about 10 degrees.

I remember talking about this set up with you a while back. I don't think many have played with this and know the ins and outs of it, hate for a guy to try a million other things when I know one thing has to be changed before he is gonna be fast.

[chapa9]

For what's it worth I run a 2 link with spring on top RR and my car seemed to like more angle on the RR bar. Expicially when I made some changes and was rolling on RR a lot more. I know it doesn't exactly go with what ya got but just giving ya some feedback.

[washeduptoo]

I understand, your probably right. He needs to try one thing at a time, first I would try trailing the rr, next moving the rr bar up, etc. Good luck.

[badfast47]

One thing i did do this week was take out the biscuit bar and put back in the spring loaded bar. Never had trouble with forward bite till i did that. Rained out today so i cant test it till next week. My first thought was to raise the RR trailing arm and i will change that. The RR spring in front was something else that crossed my mind. I have read on here the 4-2 set up i have can be very tight and that might help loosen it up. I'm entering off the gas wanting the car to turn by itself or using very little break. I have learned my lesson about changing too many things at one time for sure. I think first i will raise the RR trailing arm up and i will still have the option of putting the spring in front on a slider and sticking that RR wheel out a more but i think i will go with trailing arm first. Thanks everyone and i'll get back on here next week let you know what happened.

[LM14]

I'll argue your front springs are too soft. You're not planting the front tires on entry, you are either bottoming the RF a-frame and sliding the tire or there's not enough resistance to plant that tire.

You have a metric stub and you're running chevelle stub spring rates, that's also where the 600 rf suggestions are headed, chevelle numbers. Go to a 700 RF/650LF or even a 750/700. Square the rearend and loose the straight bar and get a j-bar on it.

JMO
SPark

[badfast47]

Pulled the front springs. The RF was a 625 and has some age on it. This could explain the shock body having a dent in it from the spring compressing too far. The LF had a 700. I put the 700 in the RF and a 800 i had in the LF. These are the heaviest front springs i have for now. RE-set the ride heights. If I'm still having trouble i could swap front springs or go just heavier on the RF ? I also raised the RR trailing arm up to 11 degrees. Thanks for every ones help so far.

[Egoracing]

Remember a tire can only do X amount of work, forward or sideways the max traction it can generate will be X.
When you let off of the gas or hit the brakes the chassis weight still tries to move forward loading the front tires. The heavier spring will get most of that load. IF that spring is on the LF it will increase drag on that corner and increase traction to a point. IF that tire is the RF tire that tire will increase drag on that corner. The corner that has more drag will cause the car to want to turn toward tat direction.
The RF tire is used more in turining into the corner than the LF AND the cars side loading during cornering and weight transfer form cornering increase the work load on that tire. IF it is also catching the weight from the deceleration it can EASLY put that tire beyond X which will shear the contact patch and cause the car to go straight.
To get the car to turn into the corner better adding LF spring rate increases load on the LF csusion the car to want to turn into the corner and then it carries more weight allowing the RF to turn the car better. This also compresses the RF with will allow the LR to stay raised more which helps promote forward bite from center off without a radical chassis attitude change.
Watch the late models as I know VERY VERY few people that run a RF spring that is stiffer than the LF and I have seen a 450-550 LF and a 250-275 RF.

[sj valley dave]

It also really depends again on if you are entering on or off the throttle. You will see bigger reverse splits in the DLM world if the driver is hammer down getting into entry...If he is off the throttle and rolls it in you will see less split...We really had issues with the car not turning when he was off throttle rolling in and when Skip Arp told us to change the front springs, bingo, it worked...We ended up with a 450 LF and a 400 RF, car would turn anywhere he needed it to...Now we run a 500/400 split and a 500/375 on dry flat stuff...just an idea..

[LM14]

Badfast47.....

I really respect Ego and SJ Valley and think they are giving you some good food for thought.

That being said, you need to remember you have a metric stub mod and not a late model. We ran springs closer to what they are talking about when we ran LM but you need to do some math.

There is a ratio of the spring location compared to the a-frame length between pivot points. A LM runs a coilover that is acting within 2" of the ball joint location. You are running a spring that is several times that distance from the ball joint. That distance creates a ratio, thus the heavier springs you need to get the same "feel" a LM would with it's lighter springs. A Chevelle stub has a different spring ratio than your metric or a car like ours with a metric Impala stub. In our case, I am generally rated at least 50# heavier than a Chevelle stub car when it comes to springs. It has to do with the spring location in the lower a-frame.

In addition to that, you are probably running a smaller and harder tire than most LM cars. Your car is probably heavier than most LM. Less side bite and forward bite is available to you than a LM has. This all has an effect on your spring choice also.

I am currently working with 2 different drivers in out 2 cars. Both want different things from the cars. One wants RF heavy spring and the other wants LF heavy spring. Both seem to do fine. One trail brakes, the other drives in. They take totally different setups. See what works for you.

Be careful when people recommend a spring, they may be on a different stub, tire or different program entierly than you are. The theory may be applicable, but not the rates they suggest.

Try the 700RF/800LF, you own it. Be sure your shocks are good, get them dynoed. Get your springs rated so you know exactly what you have. You said you have signs of it bottoming out. Fix that problem. You will chase your tail until your car runs on the proper springs and not the frame.

JMO,
SPark

[sj valley dave]

I totally agree with LM14 in that our old Super Stock with a Camaro clip and fabbed frame is closer to what you are doing..We only ran a reverse split on a couple of unique type tracks...just don't be scared of trying different set ups until you hit it and at that point who cares what the numbers are!!make it work for you as the leverage points are totally different compared to what we do with the DLM..

[washeduptoo]

I think he is running nova lowers which could take a different spring than metrics, more in the chevelle range or a little heavier. Good luck in your choice.

[badfast47]

I am on the nova lowers so i hope i went the right direction with the springs, sounds like i have. I should be on the track saturday night to see what happens, I will post it on here the next day. I have got a lot of good help on here and feeling good about it. Theres a lot of competition in the modified class and i want to be right in there with the rest of them. Thanks EVERY ONE.

[justdrive33]

I'm on 4/4 and mine will not turn in either. Have tried everything under the sun except remove my 90/10 completely. finally realized it was holding it up on the bars entering (off gas) thus making it tight. Are u running a 90/10

[badfast47]

No i am using a 70/10. haven't been able to test the front springs because of the weather.

[JustAddDirt]

metric

If you are on nova lower a's you need to be around a 750 lf and a 700 RF depending on tire, and shock package.
remember when you change a spring say 100 lbs on a nova lower, figure the 30% motion ratio, you are actually changing a spring rate by 30 lbs. 1/2 that for a 50lb spring change.
I ran the 750 lf 700rf on a ump tire.
If you are on kk704's or a IMCA tire, you may need to soften up a bit due to sidewall flex, and hardness of tire.
If you are on American Racer, say a TSMA, or open tires, you may need to stiffen a bit due to softness of sidewall and tread compound.
Also the shock compression and rebound need to be accounted for as well for spring choice.

If you have a go-pro or some sort of camera to watch the RF suspension you will gain a wealth of knowledge what the car is doing on corner entry, and through middle, and off corner.

JAD