Is the crate killing imca mods

[rustymod]

Just a little update. I started this thread because I was seeing a trend at our local tracks. Now I know it is true in our area after the season wrapped up. Two years ago we had 18 cars on average. This season we started with a 12 car average. 50/50 crate vs open. By the end of the year we were down to 5 cars all crates. As a promoter I would be worried.

Basically what happened, one of the hold out veteran drivers finally bought a crate and won 12 in a row. With no claim or exchange or tech people got frustrated and just quit coming to the track. I get it at the big specials everyone runs a crate and that's fine but at a local level not everyone wants to run a crate and its killing the numbers around here.

Its sad to say but I hung up the helmet after 20 years. If you don't have a sliver of hope for a win why be there. When I talked to Root about it I was told to go to B-mods because that sounds like all I could afford. Well we are racing for 400.00 to win why should we need to spend 50000 a year to race locally. I get it on the big specials you are going to have heavy hitters that are going to spend what ever it takes to win.

Not sure what the answer is and I think the crate was the right choice short term to bring down engine costs but there needs to be parity between the open and crate. Its sure has turned into "buy it" class. When the mod class was developed it was to give an average guy a chance to race because late models got out of hand. Looks like history is repeating itself.

good post pointing out that not all is perfect in a crate world. The other thing that I keep hearing is that promoters are altering track conditions to help crates, like leaving the track dryer some weeks. As some others have mentioned the worst situation is UMP B mods where they are forcing the class into crates as the ONLY option. I predict this will come back to bite UMP. At least with IMCA the crate is still only an option.

[50j]

Those UMP tracks will lose cars and spectators with a rule like that. No spectators, no concession or ticket sales. The tracks may want to consider going IMCA or USRA. The crate should be an option but not the only option, and the rules should give both an equal chance of winning. People by nature like to have choices.

[stockcar5]

Car counts overall didn't change around here due to the crate. A track i race at struggled to get 8-10 mods. One show had a whopping 6 cars with 3 finishing the race. Motor is a small part of the expense of the mod.

[let-r-eat]

I hate seeing racing fall off and would basically support anything that brought more cars to the track and made it cheaper on a racer. Crates haven't been a bad thing but they are just a "buy it' solution. The days of going to the local junk yard and pulling out your SBC and taking it home and with a couple hundred bucks you have something to race with that could win are over. Has this been bad for the sport? Sure. Has it ruined the sport? heck no. People that want to race will find a way.

I would like to see it much easier to want to race. The lowest class at the track costing 10 or 15 thousand dollars minimum to be competitive is just killing the want because people can't even experience it to know they want to. These 50 and 100 thousand plus dollar cars are killing the sport more than any crate engine ever could IMO.

Back in the day a $1K set of heads would make you a top regional racer. Now everyone has that type stuff.

[powerslide]

Back in the day a $1K set of heads would make you a top regional racer. Now everyone has that type stuff.

Most castings cost that much now days.

[jasjenh]

stock car driver you can take your comments and shove them up your *ss. You don't know me or what I am worth. If you raced with me and had an attitude like that you would be hanging on the front stretch wall every night. all you do is talk down to people. enough talking to the problem.

I agree there are more reasons people are quitting but one big one in our area is guys don't want to switch to a crate. and its not a money problem. They are standing up for themselves and the local engine builders. I always built all my own motors and we always did quite well. top 4 is not a challenge but the win is a different story . when the leader checks out by a half lap on second place and he has a crate too something isn't right. But there is no tech on the crate. I was actually told by the tech guy this year one night I almost won, that if I won they were going to tear me down because I must be cheating to beat a crate. Yet they didn't even look at the winners car. Talk about frustrating.

Hopefully something changes (not just the motor rules) to get some numbers back. I am not the guy that writes the rules so I don't know what the answer is. maybe if people keep talking about it someone will have a good idea and we can get some numbers again. Its no fun seeing a sport I put so much time into over the years go down hill.

[50j]

It sounds to me like the rules or tech is bad in some places, not necessarily an engine related problem.

[let-r-eat]

I with ya Jasjenh on that. I think the crate should be just another choice in a catalog. If the racer wants to choose it then he can. No special treatment for anything is the best route IMO.

I always thought putting a gauge legal 2bbl on an open engine v/s putting a 4bbl on the crate was a crazy idea and very evident of the motivation behind such a move.

[rustymod]

Ha ha, I guess I was too close to the truth?? If your worth isn't enough to satisfy your racing wants now, then hanging me on the wall is a great solution, after a week or two of that you would spend more repairing your own car and in lost purse money to buy that MEXICAN Crate motor you are claiming has caused you to quit racing. No wonder you had to quit you aint too smart..

fyi- IMCA rules are out. no spoiler on crate that's the only meaningful change..

So you can buy a 450hp crate motor for $6000 or a built motor that weighs the exact same for 7-17,000 and have any amount of hp advantage you want!

if you are spending 7k on an open motor than shame on you no reason to. Crate is not the only option, happy to hear no spoiler for crates. Since the crates are so awesome and they are fixing the economy saving the planet from poverty and global warming then they dont need any breaks to be able to compete.

[rustymod]

A lot of real racers like myself assemble our own and dont have to rely on the crate. I like many others go to auctions and buy used parts or swap meets and enjoy the process of finding what I need and having it machined. I do not need or want a crate.

There are lots of other options to the crate.

Call Gade Motors no core needed $4500

(563)-452-3547

high time for the engine component aftermarket mfg's to get a hold of IMCA and UMP and tell them they are dropping any sponsorship monies if crate is the only engine offered or if the breaks for the crates are not creating a level playing field.

Recently there was a big money race up north where they discouraged the use of a crate offered not breaks and made engine rules the same for all and was sponsored by aftermarket parts companies.

The crate BS is getting out of hand.

[rustymod]

I think your talking about the aftermarket nationals, you must not really know anything about that race though since...... No crates were allowed period.

10k to win at marshalltown about 3 hours from me. How did you do there? What's your car number?

so you build better motors than Gade ? He seems to win a few races. Never said you were not a real racer, but if you want to get into a pissing contest I am up for it.

Order all parts new eh, great glad you can do so.

[sirleafalot]

I saw the advert for the NO crate race and I was glad to see it. Stock Car, I have no affiliation with you or Rusty but what your issue with Gade ? I am a customer of his and Brian is a good guy to deal with and we had zero issues with anything we have every gotten. I am not in IMCA country closest track is almost 3 hours. I am against the Crates because for B-Mods right now UMP is not offering another option they keep adding weight and mandating crates only and racers and promoters are starting to complain. I can also tell you that as some have posted on here, in IMCA country I am starting to here a lot of complaints about promoters not watering track to help out the crate cars.

[sirleafalot]

Numbers look good on dyno for the Ford deal, and I have yet to hear of one letting go.... You say you cant build a good motor for 4500..huh so I guess the magic number is the price of the crate then ??

[sirleafalot]

I saw the hp and torque numbers for the Ford crate deal that Gade is selling for $4500 and it looks good plus I am not hearing of any having issues. According to your post you cannot build a good motor for $4500. Is the magic price needed to build a good racing motor the same as the price for the crate ?

[rustymod]

$4500 won't buy the parts to build a decent engine. Period.

Last I knew they wanted 5500 for their ford supposed crate killer. With oem 302 block crap heads cast crank cheap parts.

Wow you are just a know it all. Wow what magazine are writing for these days ???? You really should be charging for your info on 4m.
Let us know when you will be holding your seminar and how much you will be charging.

The question remains since you have so much knowledge why do you need to run a crate. With all your superior racing knowledge everyone on 4m knows you could build an open motor than could out run a crate.
So why do you need a crate then.

Please oh wise one bless us with more of your BS.