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After 2 years of frustration, I’m offering a 100$ reward to help me find lost acceleration.
I’m the guy racing a Hydroplane out in the Seattle area. I race a Ford N-head (351) stock stroke, I have 2 twin engines basically, at about 12-1 compression and both dynoed at about 580 HP, great numbers and I have the Dyno sheet Iâ€ll try to post. Both are now acting like pigs, I have Zero acceleration.
From 2003 (until I cooked the heads in 06), this boat really accelerated GREAT through the corners and all the way down the shoot like the N-heads do. I was on top of my class. After burning the heads (my fault), I was forced to use RHS 200’s (N-heads were not made for a year or so), anyway the RHS heads were great, won several races but no where near the power, about 510 when dynoed. I bought 2 sets of N-heads in 08 adding a 2nd engine, 2 N-head engines, I was in heaven. One Dynoed at about 580, one at just under that, both at about 12-1 cr. The last 2 races of 2008 through this last weekend, over 2 years, I have no acceleration at all. I can’t touch the Speeds of the former RHS headed engine. Not close. Never misses a beat, runs great, barely getting over 7000 RPM and was getting 8000 abouts back in 2003-2005. I’m saying it goes fast, but I’m getting wiped by my competitors right at the start, waving bye bye. Getting my a$$ handed to me.
Well 2009, 2010 not a race went by where I didn’t try something. After talking with an MSD guru (Pat), we found we had voltage drop. So for 2011 I added an alternator.
Well my first race was this last weekend, and I gained 4-500 RPM, not bad but STILL no acceleration at all. It was just faster but sluggish in the corner and takes the entire straight to get to 74-7500 but still dead. I would not be typing all this if I didn’t get thrown back in the seat a few years back. I really did. I was amazed at the pull down the straight aways, going this slow is unbelievable now.
In fact my equipment back then was not near what I have now, and I threw wires together myself back then. I have a long list below telling what I’ve already done. Keep in mind I have 2 engines, same results, same cam. I even put in the first cam that rocked (Clay Smith) and its dead now too, now I’m running a slightly bigger comp cam designed for my boat and it Dynoed across the board about 20 more HP and TQ better than the clay smith. Flat tappet. .580 lift after lash. About 180 seat pressure. (tried 190) I can add more Data when I get home. Some may think the problem is in the boat, well the thrust bearing is not wearing out fast at all, and the boat is the same, with added grounds, better wiring, grounds, etc.
One recent thought is, use Ti intake valves, as I’m running hollow ferrea steel valves now. I had Ti intakes when it ran fast. steel Ex.
Wouldn’t the steel Ferrea hollow valves at LEAST be fast and accelerate at some point, and up to a certain RPM? like 3000-7000, or 4000 to 7000?
When it was fast it accelerated from 3000 to 8000, no kidding, direct drive prop shaft. Bushings clearances fine, shafts are straight etc.
When I race its between 6200 now to 7400-7500 depending on prop, but that’s with a TINY prop. The bigger prop that I won with (yrs ago) is 12.5 Dia, X 22 pitch, its going at 7000 now, and was at 7800-8000 a few yrs ago.
I’m gaining, getting more speed, probably due to alternator but no acceleration anywhere and runs great, sounds great. No misses. The following is a list of what I’ve tried and changed. Yes I spent some $, that’s in the past.
1- Drilled a 1 inch hole in the Distributor cap to see my exact rotor phasing.
2- Tried 2 (newer) MSD distributors. 3 coils, 3 different MSD boxes, all had the correct Coils to match. Incl. (2) HVC box and (1) “6alâ€.
3- All new battery cables (Welding cables) 2 ga. (Had good 1 ga prior)
4- Disconnected Tachometer to see if this was the cause, (no affect). Also new switches and new MAIN Battery on-off switch.
5- honed out propeller shaft bushings WAY out to make sure there was no rubbing. Shaft straight.
6- Carb, replaced 600 HP (by rule) from TACO with one from “Pro systemsâ€. Both carbs for my application, no change.
7- Changed from 110 Vitron Needle and seat to .120 size, then went to Bo Laws Bottom feed .120 needle and seat to assure no foaming. No change.
8- All fuel lines new, #10 to pump, #8 to reg/carb. Nice BLP Log.
9- With and without power valves with proper jet adjustments.
10- Fuel pressure ok, tried 4 to 9, at 6.5 now per Bill H. (I will miss him, RIP)
11- Bought a 2nd Victor Jr and had it matched and cleaned up, No change (waste of $).
12- Ran with Air filter. different race fuels (C12, Renegade 110, Sunnoco supreme 112, Rocket 111.)
13- Grounds from heads to block, Battery grounded to block, small grounds are on Aluminum engine rail with a #4 cable to block (same place Batt ground is connected).
14- Shaft is perfectly straight with correct clearance. Thrust bearing replaced.
15- Oddessey “925†to a “1200†battery (no change).
16- Changed my fuel filter to 100 microns (was 10 microns). No change
17- Moved Magnetic pick up wire and coil wires away from all others, also shielded wire for msd.
18- Lowered plug gap from .035 to .025
19- Changed to gibbs XP6 synthetic oil. (due to 270 deg oil temps)
20- tried timing from 25 – 31 (31 tops per Bill H. as he knows the N-head)
21- valve lash at .022 cold (Card says .020). Tried .024 cold too, nothing there.
22- Accelerated like raped ape with 1†tapered HVC spacer, have tried others, went back to HVC spacer as a constant.
23- move MSD to front of engine away from other wiring, battery, etc. install to bulkhead of (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)pit. All Wires moved away from others best I could.
24- Complete rewire of all small wiring (dash and grounds etc). fuel pump & coil housing.
25- Ground coil, Batt to block, straps from heads to block, then to engine rail, from there to Batt.
26- new connectors for magnetic pickup? (Deausch).
27- check spark plug wires 300 ohms a ft. New from “Scottsâ€. Best I know of.
28- Fuel tank test, Magnafuel 275 pump ran 15 min, removed cap fast, no air. Return line good flow, flow from log good. Pressure good. Sent pump to Magnafuel for check etc. Previously did try back up BG 220 pump, same results.
29- With and without power valves, correct jetting changes.
30- New Valve springs, tried AT and above the pressure that Comp recommends.
31- I tried an air Scoop sealed, no help so now for a constant I’m running a 14 X 5 RC2 race filter.
32- stiffer push rods (from 3/8 .080 wall to 7/16 .165 wall.)
33- Oh, last night I ran it for a minute in the total dark, looking for sparks / arcing, nothing founf at all.
34- The T&D shaft rockers at 1.6, are slightly hitting the retainers/springs, but not terrible, clearance them.
Can there still be a wiring issue besides a bad tach?
Questions, ask away. If you want my timing to go up, you don’t know a lot about the N-heads, that’s not the problem. Bill recommended at 31. Most of what I read is N-head people like 25 deg to about 29 deg timing.
I’m open for suggestions to try this weekend, going to another race but only tests for me to figure this out once and for all.
Thinking of trying float bowl extensions, try my 2003 Mels Distributor with my HVC Black MSD box. Ran it that way in 2003 only, the boat was fast with 2 different MSD Distributors though.
Any ideas.
Thank you all so much. I’ll gladly call anyone who wants more info.
Rod, rodb63@yahoo.com (206) 650-6774
I’m the guy racing a Hydroplane out in the Seattle area. I race a Ford N-head (351) stock stroke, I have 2 twin engines basically, at about 12-1 compression and both dynoed at about 580 HP, great numbers and I have the Dyno sheet Iâ€ll try to post. Both are now acting like pigs, I have Zero acceleration.
From 2003 (until I cooked the heads in 06), this boat really accelerated GREAT through the corners and all the way down the shoot like the N-heads do. I was on top of my class. After burning the heads (my fault), I was forced to use RHS 200’s (N-heads were not made for a year or so), anyway the RHS heads were great, won several races but no where near the power, about 510 when dynoed. I bought 2 sets of N-heads in 08 adding a 2nd engine, 2 N-head engines, I was in heaven. One Dynoed at about 580, one at just under that, both at about 12-1 cr. The last 2 races of 2008 through this last weekend, over 2 years, I have no acceleration at all. I can’t touch the Speeds of the former RHS headed engine. Not close. Never misses a beat, runs great, barely getting over 7000 RPM and was getting 8000 abouts back in 2003-2005. I’m saying it goes fast, but I’m getting wiped by my competitors right at the start, waving bye bye. Getting my a$$ handed to me.
Well 2009, 2010 not a race went by where I didn’t try something. After talking with an MSD guru (Pat), we found we had voltage drop. So for 2011 I added an alternator.
Well my first race was this last weekend, and I gained 4-500 RPM, not bad but STILL no acceleration at all. It was just faster but sluggish in the corner and takes the entire straight to get to 74-7500 but still dead. I would not be typing all this if I didn’t get thrown back in the seat a few years back. I really did. I was amazed at the pull down the straight aways, going this slow is unbelievable now.
In fact my equipment back then was not near what I have now, and I threw wires together myself back then. I have a long list below telling what I’ve already done. Keep in mind I have 2 engines, same results, same cam. I even put in the first cam that rocked (Clay Smith) and its dead now too, now I’m running a slightly bigger comp cam designed for my boat and it Dynoed across the board about 20 more HP and TQ better than the clay smith. Flat tappet. .580 lift after lash. About 180 seat pressure. (tried 190) I can add more Data when I get home. Some may think the problem is in the boat, well the thrust bearing is not wearing out fast at all, and the boat is the same, with added grounds, better wiring, grounds, etc.
One recent thought is, use Ti intake valves, as I’m running hollow ferrea steel valves now. I had Ti intakes when it ran fast. steel Ex.
Wouldn’t the steel Ferrea hollow valves at LEAST be fast and accelerate at some point, and up to a certain RPM? like 3000-7000, or 4000 to 7000?
When it was fast it accelerated from 3000 to 8000, no kidding, direct drive prop shaft. Bushings clearances fine, shafts are straight etc.
When I race its between 6200 now to 7400-7500 depending on prop, but that’s with a TINY prop. The bigger prop that I won with (yrs ago) is 12.5 Dia, X 22 pitch, its going at 7000 now, and was at 7800-8000 a few yrs ago.
I’m gaining, getting more speed, probably due to alternator but no acceleration anywhere and runs great, sounds great. No misses. The following is a list of what I’ve tried and changed. Yes I spent some $, that’s in the past.
1- Drilled a 1 inch hole in the Distributor cap to see my exact rotor phasing.
2- Tried 2 (newer) MSD distributors. 3 coils, 3 different MSD boxes, all had the correct Coils to match. Incl. (2) HVC box and (1) “6alâ€.
3- All new battery cables (Welding cables) 2 ga. (Had good 1 ga prior)
4- Disconnected Tachometer to see if this was the cause, (no affect). Also new switches and new MAIN Battery on-off switch.
5- honed out propeller shaft bushings WAY out to make sure there was no rubbing. Shaft straight.
6- Carb, replaced 600 HP (by rule) from TACO with one from “Pro systemsâ€. Both carbs for my application, no change.
7- Changed from 110 Vitron Needle and seat to .120 size, then went to Bo Laws Bottom feed .120 needle and seat to assure no foaming. No change.
8- All fuel lines new, #10 to pump, #8 to reg/carb. Nice BLP Log.
9- With and without power valves with proper jet adjustments.
10- Fuel pressure ok, tried 4 to 9, at 6.5 now per Bill H. (I will miss him, RIP)
11- Bought a 2nd Victor Jr and had it matched and cleaned up, No change (waste of $).
12- Ran with Air filter. different race fuels (C12, Renegade 110, Sunnoco supreme 112, Rocket 111.)
13- Grounds from heads to block, Battery grounded to block, small grounds are on Aluminum engine rail with a #4 cable to block (same place Batt ground is connected).
14- Shaft is perfectly straight with correct clearance. Thrust bearing replaced.
15- Oddessey “925†to a “1200†battery (no change).
16- Changed my fuel filter to 100 microns (was 10 microns). No change
17- Moved Magnetic pick up wire and coil wires away from all others, also shielded wire for msd.
18- Lowered plug gap from .035 to .025
19- Changed to gibbs XP6 synthetic oil. (due to 270 deg oil temps)
20- tried timing from 25 – 31 (31 tops per Bill H. as he knows the N-head)
21- valve lash at .022 cold (Card says .020). Tried .024 cold too, nothing there.
22- Accelerated like raped ape with 1†tapered HVC spacer, have tried others, went back to HVC spacer as a constant.
23- move MSD to front of engine away from other wiring, battery, etc. install to bulkhead of (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)pit. All Wires moved away from others best I could.
24- Complete rewire of all small wiring (dash and grounds etc). fuel pump & coil housing.
25- Ground coil, Batt to block, straps from heads to block, then to engine rail, from there to Batt.
26- new connectors for magnetic pickup? (Deausch).
27- check spark plug wires 300 ohms a ft. New from “Scottsâ€. Best I know of.
28- Fuel tank test, Magnafuel 275 pump ran 15 min, removed cap fast, no air. Return line good flow, flow from log good. Pressure good. Sent pump to Magnafuel for check etc. Previously did try back up BG 220 pump, same results.
29- With and without power valves, correct jetting changes.
30- New Valve springs, tried AT and above the pressure that Comp recommends.
31- I tried an air Scoop sealed, no help so now for a constant I’m running a 14 X 5 RC2 race filter.
32- stiffer push rods (from 3/8 .080 wall to 7/16 .165 wall.)
33- Oh, last night I ran it for a minute in the total dark, looking for sparks / arcing, nothing founf at all.
34- The T&D shaft rockers at 1.6, are slightly hitting the retainers/springs, but not terrible, clearance them.
Can there still be a wiring issue besides a bad tach?
Questions, ask away. If you want my timing to go up, you don’t know a lot about the N-heads, that’s not the problem. Bill recommended at 31. Most of what I read is N-head people like 25 deg to about 29 deg timing.
I’m open for suggestions to try this weekend, going to another race but only tests for me to figure this out once and for all.
Thinking of trying float bowl extensions, try my 2003 Mels Distributor with my HVC Black MSD box. Ran it that way in 2003 only, the boat was fast with 2 different MSD Distributors though.
Any ideas.
Thank you all so much. I’ll gladly call anyone who wants more info.
Rod, rodb63@yahoo.com (206) 650-6774
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