No acceleration at all, but runs great?? At the end of my rope. .

[rodb63]

The Motor starts, runs fine, takes off from shore as usual, no bogging down at all, I get going, warm up a but, hit the throttle at 4 or even 5000 rpm and it slowly speeds up, no get up and go at all.
its the same accross the board, slowly speeds up. It doesn't bog down at all, once its on plane its not pushing any water at all, its on top. Its just like being in a race car, and someone adjusted the lash at .012 instead of .020, (for example) and its just dead.
I"m going to try putting the valve lash at .026 tomorrow. (Calls for .020) just to try it, should be ok.
I'm always wondering if I"m getting hot EGT's from burning fuel, I'm sorry but I failed to tell you I use max Jets, sorry. 88 Max = 80 Holley. My apologies.
My head guy called me a while ago, he recomended putting back in the Clay smith cam since that was working good, and he also said he gave me the intakes, and that though they are a little tuliped, he said 1 race won't hurt trying them and seeing. Guess what I"ll be doing after pulling into the driveway, going right to the garage looking for those. Can't try them until June 11 though. Saves me $800.
After the race this weekend he will inspect the valves hard, and know if they are still pounding after changing to a 7/16 push rod, .165 thick.

Thanks!!

[rodb63]

I didn't think of lightening the springs, I"ll do that. Each spring has about 1/8 thick of spacers under them. Maybe I can remove about .060 on each? I have a "Seat" spring pressure checker, with the dial.
Does removing .060 sound about right to try? I guess it depends on what the difference is.

Thanks!

[rodb63]

With that, ...... So from 2003 - 2007 (well not full seasons) but in that time my Titanium intake valves are tuliped, is it possible that we had a little too much pressure on thost Ti valves, but they were ok, now with the Ferrea steel valves they don't like it?
Worth a try to remove some shims.

[362CID]

Thats something i missed too, 180 lbs on a flat tappet cam is way to much, anywhere in the 120 to 140 range is great, most every flat tappet cam i have calles for 120lbs seat pressure. this could definatly be where i am figuring something is too tight. that is also why your valves are pounding the seats in the heads, the ramps and ramp speed, closing speed of the valve on a flat tappet cam is not designed for that much spring pressure and could be the answer to that problem as well. I would look at getting the seat pressure down to somewhere between 120 and 140 lbs

[DaveBauerSS6]

!80 seat pressure is more than a normal grind should run.
The part number for your cam is a custom cam casting number and you grind is custom. A grind search is null on Comps site.
I would call comp and verify the seat pressure for this grind. That may help the valve seats.
I ve ran very high seat pressures on some custom grinds and never had this problem.
My guess was the TQ charts and it looks close enough to say that is not the problem.
On your method of readjusting the seat pressure; get your head man to measure the installed heigth of the spring, measure the springs and get the right shims from him. You dont do this right, you'll end up with junk.

[rodb63]

All, and the last 3, Thanks a bunch, well I have the tools to measure inst height, and its on black ink inside the head too, and I'll be careful. I just bought that red anodized Seat spring pressure checker. I thought he put them in at 180 but they are reading at 150, (intakes) but that is with the LSM hydraulic checker so it could be off. I also have that cheap Moroso Bending metal with a needle, not what I'm taking with me. That read 240.
Anyway this is what I have. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Hydrau...tDisplayId=601

I have some shims, and I"ll be very careful but I have to try it. I'll only adjust the intakes, should be good with that. When it was fast I only used Ti Intakes and Steel Exh, and they (ex) aren't showing bounce.
We will be in web cast, ULHRA.org we are low on boats this weekend, and its only a test for me. One heat in the afternoon (2 Sunday). I am red and white, number 5. I'm the only small block, not my normal class but its fun to run with these guys. Anyone wanting to watch text me, leave a first name and I'll know what it is and I"ll text you about 20 min before my heat. (206) 650-6774. I won't change the springs until Sunday Morning.
I feel like I'm getting close, I've tried too many things to get this acceleration back, we shall see though.
Thanks, I hope someone sees it but its a small show. (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) I can say you guys are pretty sharp at this, I'm learning a TON.
Rod

[jmdrace]

the last valve springs seems the head master as you say ground the seats and mite have done some bowl work did he do the angles on the valve and did he re shim or did he just fix and reinstall ........ i say no ignition issues no intake issues its in the valve train ,,,,,,,depending on pressure u can take a tweek outa the rockers but retainers be better,,,,,,,, also recheck the rocker ration and push rod length

[rodb63]

weekend update

A tiring weekend but some results.
I had a test session Saturday and 2 heats Sunday so this gave me time for 2 tests, First Saturday I decided to make my Lash at 26, I normally put it at 22 cold (iron heads). It seemed to have a little more speed than a week ago, but still wasn't accelerating hard at all. Saturday night was my first chance at trying less spring seat pressure. I took out .060 shim from one intake spring and that reduced it from 180 lbs seat pressure to 160, I decided to take out .030 more and it was at 150 seat. Changed all intakes to 150. I was really hoping this would make a difference, no dice. Same dead Acceleration. I was wrote off line about possibly dynoeing again. Also that my problem may be in the boat. I have done several things in the boat, both loose and tight on the strut and mid strut bushings, my grounds are much better than before all new wires and tested by a friend who repairs multi meters for Fluke, he gave me a nice Fluke meter. I've dissconnected tack, using a switch on that, and yes I forgot to TOTALLY didconnect the switch, just forgot but I"ll remember next time. I'm forgetting somewhat where we left off here but I made some valid changes, dang I thought the spring pressure was a big possibility, but some didn't I know.
I apologize if anyone went to ULHRA.ORG and didn't see any "webcast". They didn't do Webcast for this race, I had no idea.
I talked to one of you by phone on my way over the mountain, WOW that guys knows a lot. Will be talking with him more, after my head clears from the weekend. Next race 5 weeks. Should I Dyno again, start at a better Dyno? I know of another thats suppose to be real good. The engine in the boat now is the candidate for that right? Not the one thats 99% ready.
Titanium valves? I'm very tempted. All the help I've recieved here has been incredible, far beyond what I was hoping for. Again, pictures are on facebook under my name. Rod Bourke, even a new one from the weekend.

Rod

[ptodd]

titanium valves is not gonna fix your problem. i would put it back on the dyno and see what happens

[SLM98]

Have you ever done a leakdown test?

[rodb63]

I will dyno it, thanks but I think I'll use a different Dyno, a newer one that can give more data. I know of a few, I"ll ask around.
Yes my builder gives my engines a leak down every time and they are always good but on occasion he catches something, good point though. I bought a leak down tester from summit or jegs a few years ago, never got it to work or thought I didn't know what I was doing so I gave it to my builder to try and he said it was junk. I'll get a good one and KNOW how to use it. I've been doing Compression tests and they seem worthless to me now.
You guys have REALLY come through with some very good ideas, I need to go back through every post on this, and print it out. Last night I was eye balling the shaft and saw an area that was rubbed on but not enough to affect speed, but it made me think about the shaft, so I'm going to get it checked and see if its worming around more than my old one, which had NO rub marks where this one did. I'll put the old shaft in for the next race, but first I"ll take them both to see if they match in hardness as they are both suppose to be aquamet 19. I just called marine machining where I got it and I asked what year I bought it, it it was 2008, then there is a possibility of ???
I will keep you ALL updated, but next race is June 11, and my hull requires a crane to launch.
I'm not giving up, and yes I've spent enough.
Rod

[SLM98]

The leakdown will also tell you where you are leaking. If the intakes are pounded bad you are losing compression and also getting a bad case of reversion. There has to be a reason for the intakes pounding out,valve train out of control,too soft of a seat, and many other factors. Just about everybody runs a coated titanium intake valve in any serious race engine thats turned more than 8000.

[dynoman14]

Well dude, I am not sure $100 is enough of a reward...but

I do know the answer to your problem and have fixed it or worked around it enough to get the lil ole blue ovals back running again. A buddy of mine works for Yates designed those heads about 10 years ago and he is just a regular old dude that has built race engines for about 50 years, and is one of Robert and Doug's right hand guys. Anyway, when they stopped building the heads they put the project in the hands of the Ford engineeers much like they did a couple years ago with the CUP head program.

What happened? A Ford could not run out of a shower of $hizz...Well of course they totally screwed up 2 great cylinder head programs by making the ports look all pretty and all the engineering numbers look better.

After 2 years of RYR redesigning stuff and Larry working his magic. Results = Cup heads are fixed...N-Heads are still screwed up. 2 BBL Nascar Late models lost about 50Ft/# or more necessitating a rule change allowing a 500 baseplate on a 350 carb, anyway...

If you want the problem fixed, you can send me the heads and of course the $100 plus some extra to get the real work done.

Hit me with an e-mail if you want to get something going I am on a consultiing gig for another week or so and then back in town, anything new is about 4 weeks out.

Folks on here acuse me of being a name dropper but when you grew up or worked with the folks that did the original work, I don't think that applies. We actually did all of the beta testing out of my Chassis DYno shop and live in race testing at Lanier Raceway when I worked there. The engines that were run were the pre-cursors to the original Ford Crate Engine program. We had a 302" small & big bore and a 357" small and big bore.

BTW, better be looking for an inertia dyno or you are pi$$ing in the wind bro.

Later,
Mark

[ptodd]

useing another dyno might not help you because of the difference in dynos. have seen 70hp diff in 2 different dyno's use the same dyno it was dynoed on and compair.

[F22 RAPTOR]

The plot thickens....