Who the Devil is Running This (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) Country Anyway?"

[t.nie]

Yeah. Pretty much sums it up. I don't agree with you, so that puts me on the side of every nasty kind of anti-American group out there.

My identity first and foremost is Christian, not political. My Christian brothers and sisters can be found in Wyoming, Vermont, Canada, Philippines, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Russia, anywhere.

My Christian nation has no borders and its not wrapped up in man made political theories. You can call me whatever you like, but deep down inside, I know who I am. And you are right about one thing. I am in very good company.

[ss12]

t.nie Very will written and I agree with you 100%. Thanks for coming back and putting us on the right track. Keep up the good work.

[Clayton_Wetter]

[TS FAN]

Yeah. Pretty much sums it up. I don't agree with you, so that puts me on the side of every nasty kind of anti-American group out there.

My identity first and foremost is Christian, not political. My Christian brothers and sisters can be found in Wyoming, Vermont, Canada, Philippines, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Russia, anywhere.

My Christian nation has no borders and its not wrapped up in man made political theories. You can call me whatever you like, but deep down inside, I know who I am. And you are right about one thing. I am in very good company.

Your Christian views are very good and I agree. However your views on the leadership of this Country are another matter. While your studying your Bible, looked closely to the scripture about turning your back on Israel. It is not the place of Christians to try and over throw any Gov. but it is their responsibility to identify bad behavior on the part of our leaders. Our leader does not like jews or Christians. Fine, but lets call it what it is. Lying constantly to the people of this Country is also not an attribute. Would you agree?

[t.nie]

You brought this up before, this notion that turning your back on Israel (the country) is a slap in the face to Christians. The Jews living in modern day Israel, the country, do not even believe the Messiah has come. They do not accept Christ as the Messiah. So they turn their back on what most Christians believe anyway and think we are all wrong.

There is a lot of material out there that offers up explanations as to who the Nation of Israel is today. And the Nation of Israel is different from the country named Israel, where the Israelis live.

I am no expert on it, but the best source I could find was Ligonier, or at least Lignonier is a source I would trust the authors to have some integrity and not be wildly reinterpreting things to come to a conclusion they wanted.

Best I could gather, the Nation of Israel is all believers in the Messiah. It's not a country, but a group of people who all share the same belief that Jesus is Lord and Savior, who make up the "Nation of Israel." If its the actual country Israel, I am not sure why, if we are going to use our faith as the main justification for supporting a country, that there is any reason to support a country that does not share our fundamental Christian belief, that Jesus was the Messiah.

But by no means am I any kind of expert on it. And while I kinda doubt Obama gets up every day and his first thought is prayer and meditation and what can he do to serve God today, I think we all have the same obligation to take people at their word when they say they are Christian believers. I am sure if folks followed me around all day long, they could find things to say "well, you call yourself a Christian, but you did this, or said that, and that's not what a Christian would do, so you must not be a Christian at all!"

The bible tells us we can't really know what is in another man's heart, and its between him and God. I serve with people in my church that don't display much love for their brothers that I can see, and spout off a lot of hate and malice toward people. But its not for me to say if they are saved or not, or what their belief is. If they profess to be Christian, I accept it. God uses all sorts for his own purposes. Even people that don't seem to be on the right path even though they claim to be.

Short answer is its not something I am well read on, and its not something I think is particularly relevant to what I do with my life every day.

As far as lying every day, I think that what I see more often is misrepresentation of what he says. And the bible tells us that bearing false witness against someone is a sin. If he is lying, then he is going to have to answer for it. But when people take what he says, twist it into what he did not intend, and then accuse HIM of being the liar, it really falls square into that category of bearing false witness against him.

It is equally possible that today I get asked a question, give my honest answer based on what I know today or believe to be true today, only to find out tomorrow that I didn't know all the facts or I was wrong or misunderstood something. Does that make me a liar? No. Just makes me more cautious the next time I answer something. But often we answer to the best of our ability, and we have to treat others with the same level of forgiveness and understanding we would hope they would show us should we make the same mistake.

The bible also tells us that we are to serve our masters to the best of our abilities, whether they are good masters or bad. I don't see the government as our masters, but I think the same holds true, that we should respect the leaders we have who are there by the grace and direction of God. Who am I to question who God chooses to lead our nation, whether I think they are good or bad, honorable or deceitful?

I never see anything in the bible where Jesus preached "hold your leaders accountable." What I have read is "God holds leaders accountable." I take that very seriously, because I actually lead some stuff in my church, and its quite frightening to think that there is this extra responsibility placed on me to conduct myself to the highest possible standard because I volunteer to lead.

It was part of the reason I stopped posting on here. I knew I wanted to step up and volunteer more at my church in the future, but something had to change in me. And arguing and saying some of the stuff I was saying on here just wasn't good enough. It was horribly wrong. Dreadfully inappropriate. It was time to step back and do some soul searching and ask God to straighten me out. And I still fail. We had this discussion, some other folks on the worship team (I play guitar) and one person said there were often time they just didn't feel like they were worthy or the right person to be leading, to be in front because they felt they let God down so much. I said I know, because I know what a rotten person I can really be. I know me. I am not honorable, I do say and think some horrible things. I do sin, I do stumble and fall. It can be hard to stand up front and lead sometimes. But I fall back on being saved and truly believing that God can use me, with all my garbage, just as he can use anyone.

All I know is he will be held accountable, like we all will. But I don't think its my place to judge what his true motives are. I just don't know. All we can do is take people at their word and realize God will take care of it.

[ss12]

TS can you please explain why the orthodox Jewish are against the Zionist Jewish(only been around since 1900's)who control the country Israel?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEDPOPr7qiY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tylDFfzJ7zc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMQ9C6vni0w

[TS FAN]

It is not about the country of Israel as much it is about the land. God gave them that land, and it includes what is being inhabited by the Palis. I cannot begin to give you all the info concerning this matter. Start with the Book of Joel. The Lord scattered his people and then called them home. Israel does not believe that Christ came here already, that is correct. They are blinded for a season. However many are converted to Christianity. Most importantly, the Lord expects the USA to protect Israel and its land until the end of the Church age. That are get to things rolling. LOL
The old Testament books of the Prophets go into to detail of events that were to come. Way too much to explain on here. BTW. England was their alley and Friend, but they deserted them before WWll. Check and see how that worked out for them.

[ss12]

Clayton are you kidding me? It sadden me to see that you are still effected by psychological propaganda that they used in the 60's for the children in the public school. I remember the drills where the sirens went off and we had to go to a designated area and lay on the floor and cover our heads because the Russians(communist) were coming. Hey take it easy President Reagan stopped the cold war with the Russians and the communism are not coming anymore. Heck they don't even do the drills anymore. The 'New" boogey man are "terrorist". I know you are old and retired but you need to keep up with the times. I will try to help you out when the next time they change the boogey man.

[Clayton_Wetter]

No I am not kidding you. Where did I say anything about hiding under school desks, silly?

You just keep on fooling yourself, but the Russians and Chinese are continuing a process to destroy this nation from within. If you think many of those top Democrats are patriotic and doing the right things for this nation you are 100% wrong. They are more tied to the United Nations than America.

[ss12]

So the USA isn't involved in any of these activities? Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, and Iraq. I think both parties are to blame one is no better than the other. It used to be that the government protect the citizens from the big corporations. Now the government protect the big corporation from the citizens. We have the best government that money can buy. It might be good the corporation but not for the citizens.

[Clayton_Wetter]

You brought this up before, this notion that turning your back on Israel (the country) is a slap in the face to Christians. The Jews living in modern day Israel, the country, do not even believe the Messiah has come. They do not accept Christ as the Messiah. So they turn their back on what most Christians believe anyway and think we are all wrong.

There is a lot of material out there that offers up explanations as to who the Nation of Israel is today. And the Nation of Israel is different from the country named Israel, where the Israelis live.

I am no expert on it, but the best source I could find was Ligonier, or at least Lignonier is a source I would trust the authors to have some integrity and not be wildly reinterpreting things to come to a conclusion they wanted.

Best I could gather, the Nation of Israel is all believers in the Messiah. It's not a country, but a group of people who all share the same belief that Jesus is Lord and Savior, who make up the "Nation of Israel." If its the actual country Israel, I am not sure why, if we are going to use our faith as the main justification for supporting a country, that there is any reason to support a country that does not share our fundamental Christian belief, that Jesus was the Messiah.

But by no means am I any kind of expert on it. And while I kinda doubt Obama gets up every day and his first thought is prayer and meditation and what can he do to serve God today, I think we all have the same obligation to take people at their word when they say they are Christian believers. I am sure if folks followed me around all day long, they could find things to say "well, you call yourself a Christian, but you did this, or said that, and that's not what a Christian would do, so you must not be a Christian at all!"

The bible tells us we can't really know what is in another man's heart, and its between him and God. I serve with people in my church that don't display much love for their brothers that I can see, and spout off a lot of hate and malice toward people. But its not for me to say if they are saved or not, or what their belief is. If they profess to be Christian, I accept it. God uses all sorts for his own purposes. Even people that don't seem to be on the right path even though they claim to be.

Short answer is its not something I am well read on, and its not something I think is particularly relevant to what I do with my life every day.

As far as lying every day, I think that what I see more often is misrepresentation of what he says. And the bible tells us that bearing false witness against someone is a sin. If he is lying, then he is going to have to answer for it. But when people take what he says, twist it into what he did not intend, and then accuse HIM of being the liar, it really falls square into that category of bearing false witness against him.

It is equally possible that today I get asked a question, give my honest answer based on what I know today or believe to be true today, only to find out tomorrow that I didn't know all the facts or I was wrong or misunderstood something. Does that make me a liar? No. Just makes me more cautious the next time I answer something. But often we answer to the best of our ability, and we have to treat others with the same level of forgiveness and understanding we would hope they would show us should we make the same mistake.

The bible also tells us that we are to serve our masters to the best of our abilities, whether they are good masters or bad. I don't see the government as our masters, but I think the same holds true, that we should respect the leaders we have who are there by the grace and direction of God. Who am I to question who God chooses to lead our nation, whether I think they are good or bad, honorable or deceitful?

I never see anything in the bible where Jesus preached "hold your leaders accountable." What I have read is "God holds leaders accountable." I take that very seriously, because I actually lead some stuff in my church, and its quite frightening to think that there is this extra responsibility placed on me to conduct myself to the highest possible standard because I volunteer to lead.

It was part of the reason I stopped posting on here. I knew I wanted to step up and volunteer more at my church in the future, but something had to change in me. And arguing and saying some of the stuff I was saying on here just wasn't good enough. It was horribly wrong. Dreadfully inappropriate. It was time to step back and do some soul searching and ask God to straighten me out. And I still fail. We had this discussion, some other folks on the worship team (I play guitar) and one person said there were often time they just didn't feel like they were worthy or the right person to be leading, to be in front because they felt they let God down so much. I said I know, because I know what a rotten person I can really be. I know me. I am not honorable, I do say and think some horrible things. I do sin, I do stumble and fall. It can be hard to stand up front and lead sometimes. But I fall back on being saved and truly believing that God can use me, with all my garbage, just as he can use anyone.

All I know is he will be held accountable, like we all will. But I don't think its my place to judge what his true motives are. I just don't know. All we can do is take people at their word and realize God will take care of it.

So Breitbart and Ewart, Freedom Caucus bad but Lignonier good. Yes sir, it's a liberal org. That's all you believe in for everything. Myself I would rather ignore such trash. Liberalism and and the Christian religion are not compatible.

[TS FAN]

So the USA isn't involved in any of these activities? Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, and Iraq. I think both parties are to blame one is no better than the other. It used to be that the government protect the citizens from the big corporations. Now the government protect the big corporation from the citizens. We have the best government that money can buy. It might be good the corporation but not for the citizens.

And yet, based on your posting you will cast your vote for Clinton. So will many others who complain about the Government being bought and paid for. Clinton is the biggest political slime ever to run for President. LOL, she is going to take down Wall Street. Yet Wall Street owns her, double LOL
Clinton wakes up in the morning and has her staff tell her this. "This is what you are for today" This is what you are against" "You will need to spin/lie on these issues". "We will give you a couple hours to study who you are today"

Think I am making this up? Think again

[kidrock]

And yet, based on your posting you will cast your vote for Clinton. So will many others who complain about the Government being bought and paid for. Clinton is the biggest political slime ever to run for President. LOL, she is going to take down Wall Street. Yet Wall Street owns her, double LOL
Clinton wakes up in the morning and has her staff tell her this. "This is what you are for today" This is what you are against" "You will need to spin/lie on these issues". "We will give you a couple hours to study who you are today"

Think I am making this up? Think again

And I can tell you nothing about ss12 because I guarantee you he will not vote for Clinton. And yes I know ss12

[ss12]

I haven't vote for either republican or democrat presidential candidate in the last 2 elections. Why would I vote for the same thing after the election is over. I just laugh when the majority of voters haven't figured this out. Most of you "expert" voters have helped turn this into a sporting event and you think your team is the best. In the mean time the teams real owner(s) put their coach out in the media for you to choose which coach you like. So you can choose what ever coach you like but when the election is over the coach will take his orders from the his owner. That's how the money works like it or not. I would bet money that the owner(s) have been in control since Bush 41. Its easier to control 2 parties and that's why it is hard for a 3rd party to join the race.

Bush(R) 41 in office 8 years
Clinton(D) 42 held office for 8 years
Bush(R) 43 held office for 8 years
Obama(D) 44 held office for 8 years.
Noticed the trends?
So its the republicans turn for 8 years. At least the leader(s) is fair!

Is your kool aid red or blue. I'll have green glass full please. Anything but red or blue.

[TS FAN]

OK, I stand corrected.