Glad NASCAR is getting started!!!!

[kidrock]

what do call them does your local short track series or tracks pull that crap does any other sanctioning body pull that crap here is a great season for nascar if you like gimmicks Daytona Daytona Homestead banquet

No but, my local dirt track does not run 500 mile races, my local dirt track runs heat races, they both do different things doesn't mean ones a gimmick just different rules.

[old fan]

INDY car doesn't do that gimmick crap why should Nascar and why the sudden change for years ran correctly nut now they don't oh wait this is the sanctioning body that thought it was to idea to finish a race under YELLOW

[kidrock]

INDY car doesn't do that gimmick crap why should Nascar and why the sudden change for years ran correctly nut now they don't oh wait this is the sanctioning body that thought it was to idea to finish a race under YELLOW

So what that Indy car doesn't do it. NASCAR made the decision to go this route and you and others may not like it but, you and others don't run NASCAR. you and others don't watch it anymore wink, wink, and if that's why well NASCAR will have to live with that. Get over it.

[CIRF]

That's what you get when Mud and myself are the only 2 watching lol

It won't be much longer and it will be like Indy car. You won't be able to watch it on tv anymore. Or it will be on a channel no one gets.

Thank God that's not the only thing to do in this world.

Indy Car actually has a pretty good TV lineup for 2016 as opposed to the recent past. 5 races on ABC network broadcast TV plus both qualifying days for the Indianapolis 500. However, this being the 100th running of the Indy 500 may be the reason for Indy qualifying being on ABC broadcast network television.

The rest of the Indy Car races are on NBC Sports Channel which admittedly is a somewhat obscure cable channel. I believe the Texas Speedway & Iowa Speedway Indy Car races should be on network broadcast TV because generally those two venue's produce some of the best racing of the year, and that includes the Indy 500. Although, the past 4 Indy 500's have been some of the best racing you'll see all year and that includes NASCAR and short track racing.

Bottom line is this,(nascrap) sucks!

It never used to suck, lazermod. There was a time when it was as good as it gets. I do not relish getting older but I'm certainly glad that I was witness to some of NASCAR's greatest racing, in person. I won't say what I saw was the best racing NASCAR ever produced but it was right up there!

Oh ok I don't see those as gimmicks but, whatever.

Kid, any time the basic premise of racing is altered to attempt to produce artificial competition and result, as in the case of the chase and lucky dog and GWC, by definition it is gimmickry.

So what that Indy car doesn't do it. NASCAR made the decision to go this route and you and others may not like it but, you and others don't run NASCAR. you and others don't watch it anymore wink, wink, and if that's why well NASCAR will have to live with that. Get over it.

You're right, NASCAR made the decision and they're living with drastically lower interest levels both in attendance and television. As it should be.

The persistent resistance by Indy Car to include gimmickry in their race procedures is commendable and a main reason why we have taken more interest in Indy Car oval track racing in recent years. More pure, unfettered competition, which is what a very significant portion of NASCAR fandom found to be unsatisfactory. Obviously that is contingent upon personal interpretation but the trend is painfully evident, especially to NASCAR.

[CIRF]

http://www.jayski.com/news/pages/sto...n-Ratings-2015

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2015...ed-since-2008/

The NASCAR ratings are down and continue to show a persistent downward trend.

The Indy Car ratings showed a bit of life in trending higher all season. What is baffling is that road courses drew the best ratings of the races that were broadcast on NBC Sports Network. Personally I find that incredible since the oval racing at Fontana, Texas and Milwaukee was some of the best racing of any kind you'll see all year long.

I admit to being somewhat disconnected in reference to all types of road course racing, except maybe the Rolex, which is interesting due to a certain dirt driver participating and being highly successful. That said, I must be missing something since Sonoma was the high water mark for the Indy Cars on NBCSN.

The Indy 500 is a whole different animal, I concede that, but Indy outdrew NASCAR's Coke 600 last year both in attendance and TV viewership. In fact Indy blew away the 600 in the TV ratings.

Unfortunately, this years' Daytona 500 viewership was down a big fat 16% from 2015. Although Indy Car has a long way to go we're seeing the two genre's trending sharply in different directions regarding TV ratings.

Could this be because people like myself are turning to relative gimmick-free racing? I don't know but it's sure a possibility, I reckon.

[kidrock]

The NASCAR ratings are down and continue to show a persistent downward trend.

The Indy Car ratings showed a bit of life in trending higher all season. What is baffling is that road courses drew the best ratings of the races that were broadcast on NBC Sports Network. Personally I find that incredible since the oval racing at Fontana, Texas and Milwaukee was some of the best racing of any kind you'll see all year long.

I admit to being somewhat disconnected in reference to all types of road course racing, except maybe the Rolex, which is interesting due to a certain dirt driver participating and being highly successful. That said, I must be missing something since Sonoma was the high water mark for the Indy Cars on NBCSN.

The Indy 500 is a whole different animal, I concede that, but Indy outdrew NASCAR's Coke 600 last year both in attendance and TV viewership. In fact Indy blew away the 600 in the TV ratings.

Unfortunately, this years' Daytona 500 viewership was down a big fat 16% from 2015. Although Indy Car has a long way to go we're seeing the two genre's trending sharply in different directions regarding TV ratings.

Could this be because people like myself are turning to relative gimmick-free racing? I don't know but it's sure a possibility, I reckon.

I deleted it because I was trying to find a better comparison. Yes you can see indycar didn't even have a TV contract at one time or if they did not many people even got the channel and now you see they are slowing climbing so, now NASCAR is in a tailspin but, can rebound at some point. They were bound to go down. It's hard to maintain high ratings year after year and yes some of it is because the racing just isn't as good as it used to be. I would bet if the racing was better you would see the ratings go back up. Plus if NASCAR would really let them have at it you would see the ratings go back up. You have to remember a lot people would tune in to see what was going to happen the next week between drivers. I would bet if that would happen again people wouldn't care about how the point system and or any other thing you guys call gimmicks.

[CIRF]

But the NASCAR ratings have been going down for over 10 years now.

It is especially good to see Indy Car ratings solidly trending upward. If, and this is a huge if, Indy Car can increase their TV revenue this would entice higher dollar sponsors to be involved which in turn would allow more races which would in turn higher revenues being generated by the tracks and car owners which in turn would possibly draw the financial interests of drivers like Rico, Bell and Larson, just to name a few. Not to mention the fact that higher TV interest equates to higher attendance numbers.

I guarantee you if all three of those guys along with Bryan Clauson were ever to become full time Indy Car drivers on competitive teams we'd see exponential gains in both attendance and TV viewership.

I know, I know, at this point it's a pipe dream but the way things are trending, it's worth some thought.

[kidrock]

But the NASCAR ratings have been going down for over 10 years now.

It is especially good to see Indy Car ratings solidly trending upward. If, and this is a huge if, Indy Car can increase their TV revenue this would entice higher dollar sponsors to be involved which in turn would allow more races which would in turn higher revenues being generated by the tracks and car owners which in turn would possibly draw the financial interests of drivers like Rico, Bell and Larson, just to name a few. Not to mention the fact that higher TV interest equates to higher attendance numbers.

I guarantee you if all three of those guys along with Bryan Clauson were ever to become full time Indy Car drivers on competitive teams we'd see exponential gains in both attendance and TV viewership.

I know, I know, at this point it's a pipe dream but the way things are trending, it's worth some thought.

And NASCAR still has millions of viewers each year. That should tell you something and it's still surviving.

[CIRF]

Yep, but the bleeding has got to stop sometime and there is no sign of that happening in the foreseeable future for NASCAR.

At least Indy Car shows signs of gaining some steam as opposed to a significant decline in TV ratings from the previous year at every race on the schedule like NASCAR. Hopefully they don't screw it up by trying to emulate NASCAR with the silly and unnecessary gimmickry since NASCAR is irrefutable proof they don't create interest. In fact they drive people away and they delegitimize the on track competition.

NHRA took a cue from gimmick ridden NASCAR and has implemented their own version of the chase gimmick. I've been hanging out with a buddy that is a temporary shut-in on Sunday evenings. Since my buddy is a big NHRA fan we watch drag racing every week. Judging from the crowds we see on TV and the ratings the chase gimmick isn't working for NHRA, either.

[kidrock]

Yep, but the bleeding has got to stop sometime and there is no sign of that happening in the foreseeable future for NASCAR.

At least Indy Car shows signs of gaining some steam as opposed to a significant decline in TV ratings from the previous year at every race on the schedule like NASCAR. Hopefully they don't screw it up by trying to emulate NASCAR with the silly and unnecessary gimmickry since NASCAR is irrefutable proof they don't create interest, if fact they drive people away and they delegitimize the on track competition.

NHRA took a cue from gimmick ridden NASCAR and has implemented their own version of the chase gimmick. I've been hanging out with a buddy that is a temporary shut-in on Sunday evenings. Since my buddy is a big NHRA fan we watch drag racing every week. Judging from the crowds we see on TV and the ratings the chase gimmick isn't working for NHRA, either.

And long has it taken for them to start rebounding? Everything has a plateau then it's starts on a downward spiral and then it usually will go back up and start leveling off. NASCAR is no different in this regard. They still have plenty of viewers to be viable as of right now.

so your just going to contribute that just because of the chase is why it's losing ratings?
Then what's your excuse for dirt track racing because they have been losing a fan base for the last what 5 plus years because we know they don't have any chase

[CIRF]

I will repeat, the bleeding has to stop. There are no viable signs that will happen. NASCAR has already relinquished a fair amount of relevance and credibility. How much more can they lose? To a huge percentage of the fan base from 10 to 15 years ago they've already reached 0 relevance and even less credibility and that percentage gets larger everyday.

The problems started for Indy Car way, way back in 1971 when they knuckled under to pressure from Roger Penske and Pat Patrick, among others. They allowed the influential, big money owners to gain so much power that the dirt mile's were taken away from the National Championship Trail at their request. That was the beginning of the USAC Silver Crown dirt car division being a separate division. Prior to 1971 in order to be National Champion you had to run the Indy Mile, The Springfield Mile, The Du Quoin Mile, The Sacramento Mile, The Sedalia Mile, etc., right along with Indy, Trenton, Michigan and Milwaukee.

Giving that power to the big owners resulted in the formation of CART in 1979 or 1980. But it all started in 1971. From the moment CART was formed it was only a matter of time 'till the inevitable fall from relevance would happen. And it did. With the influx of big money being brought to owners from foreign drivers to secure rides the American short track ladder to Indy Car slowly collapsed and so did Indy Car. Indy Car will never be what it once was during the 1950's and 1960's. Looking back it's easy to see why.

Local tracks that have run good racing on a consistent basis, like Fairbury & Macon, Illinois and Kokomo & Putnamville, Indiana have held their own and even flourished. The tracks that haven't are hurting. Simple as that.

[kidrock]

I will repeat, the bleeding has to stop. There are no viable signs that will happen. NASCAR has already relinquished a fair amount of relevance and credibility. How much more can they lose? To a huge percentage of the fan base from 10 to 15 years ago they've already reached 0 relevance and even less credibility and that percentage gets larger everyday.

The problems started for Indy Car way, way back in 1971 when they knuckled under to pressure from Roger Penske and Pat Patrick, among others. They allowed the influential, big money owners to gain so much power that the dirt mile's were taken away from the National Championship Trail at their request. That was the beginning of the USAC Silver Crown dirt car division being a separate division. Prior to 1971 in order to be National Champion you had to run the Indy Mile, The Springfield Mile, The Du Quoin Mile, The Sacramento Mile, The Sedalia Mile, etc., right along with Indy, Trenton, Michigan and Milwaukee.

Giving that power to the big owners resulted in the formation of CART in 1979 or 1980. But it all started in 1971. From the moment CART was formed it was only a matter of time 'till the inevitable fall from relevance would happen. And it did. With the influx of big money being brought to owners from foreign drivers to secure rides the American short track ladder to Indy Car slowly collapsed and so did Indy Car. Indy Car will never be what it once was during the 1950's and 1960's. Looking back it's easy to see why.

Local tracks that have run good racing on a consistent basis, like Fairbury & Macon, Illinois and Kokomo & Putnamville, Indiana have held their own and even flourished. The tracks that haven't are hurting. Simple as that.

Even those track that are doing good have had lower fan base then what they used to have. Yes it's true they are doing much better then some tracks but, all in all the fan base has diminished some. Racing in general have a lower fan base then what they used too.
And those that have lost more of thier fan base had nothing to with a gimmick like the chase as some call it.

[CIRF]

As for the nationwide sanctions it took over 20 years for the bottom to completely fall out from under Indy Car and it will take that long or longer for NASCAR to hit bottom. The decisions that have been made and the decisions that will be made will inflict cumulative damage on NASCAR just as they did on Indy Car.

I'm just barely ancient enough to remember the late 1970's early 1980's at Fairbury, Kankakee and Peoria. Attendance was down pretty significantly as compared to the mid to late 1960's. This according to guys like Jack Tyne and Bobby Shell. Attendance cycled back to where it is today at FALS and Peoria, although KKK has hit some pretty hard times of late. We've been going down to Macon periodically since the mid 80's to both the DLM shows and the open wheel shows and I am confident saying attendance is better than it was throughout the 1990's and early 2000's.

If it's run right the crowds will still be there.

[kidrock]

As for the nationwide sanctions it took over 20 years for the bottom to completely fall out from under Indy Car and it will take that long or longer for NASCAR to hit bottom. The decisions that have been made and the decisions that will be made will inflict cumulative damage on NASCAR just as they did on Indy Car.

I'm just barely ancient enough to remember the late 1970's early 1980's at Fairbury, Kankakee and Peoria. Attendance was down pretty significantly as compared to the mid to late 1960's. This according to guys like Jack Tyne and Bobby Shell. Attendance cycled back to where it is today at FALS and Peoria, although KKK has hit some pretty hard times of late. We've been going down to Macon periodically since the mid 80's to both the DLM shows and the open wheel shows and I am confident saying attendance is better than it was throughout the 1990's and early 2000's.

If it's run right the crowds will still be there.

Yes most of the shows you have to have been specials I'm talking about weekly shows. And yes some are doing better then others I agree with that but, what it used to be. I know FALS is a great run track but, they themselves have had a decline to what it used to be. Macon same thing. Other tracks have not faired as well my whole point is most all motor sports are down and not just because of a chase points systems.

Thanks for the debate at least it's been civil and that I respect.

[old fan]

well the gimmick is not helping kidrock young people don't care for tradional(sp) sports anymore college and even high school attendance is down too many distractions now a days then you got tracks like highland that has dropped some but still doing strong Tri city is getting better after some rough times