Jay D!ckens Facebook post - Good Read on cost.

[play4kps]

Shock rules!
Shock rules!
Shock rules!
If that dont work give them smaller tires, that will make bigger engines irrelevant!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Shock rules!
Shock rules!
Shock rules!
If that dont work give them smaller tires, that will make bigger engines irrelevant!

We have shock rules. No electronics. No inerters. No thru shaft. What magic needs to be outlawed?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

#1 Bodies are not taking the price of late model racing higher. Sure they're using as much air as possible. Reduce the spoiler height. No more wicker lip on top of them either.

#2. Shocks. The RF and LR technology has got to be stopped. Crews today have to have a shock guy alone. Go to a lucas/woo show. Those 2 shocks get the most attention of everything on the cars today. I say more so than tires.

#3. Motors. You, no I'm wrong, we all have are opinions on this topic. Guess what ? that's part of the problem. No one can agree on anything when it comes to HP. I hate nascar, maybe dirt racing needs a carb rule that could be adjusted from track to track.

#4. Rocket, along with others. 40K for a roller. People are spending 100K for 2 cars minus drivelines. Yes, by the time you get them wrapped 100k.

#5. My personal pet peeve. Tracks with there own tire rule. Yea, we all understand why, point funds. Ridiculous.

#1Bodies were the issue with the wedge cars. They are as good or better now. You miss the forest for the trees.

#2 Those corners are very important. No adjustment rule? lol

[CageFaraday]

Jay (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ens, Pro Power, Durham and all the other top builders and parts suppliers for their motors, are just as much to blame as anyone right behind the aero and shock packages. I get that the cars have more grip than power now, so these builders charge a premium for every last bit of power they can make. Then the Nascar owned and funded teams come in and write checks for a dozen motors without balking at the price, which sets the market for every one else. Most others cant keep up with those costs, so they fold up. 20 years ago they made 700-800 horsepower for under 30k.... now you're telling me it should cost 60k for 100 hp more?? even with the introduction of CNC and other time and cost effective manufacturing processes? does a $5,500 crankshaft really cost any more to make than a $1,500 crankshaft? Does a $7000 block really cost any more to manufacture than a $2500 block? Do a set of 15k cylinder heads take any more to cast and machine than a $2000 set? No. The suppliers and builders are catering to the big money teams which set the market price for everyone else. (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ens is just as guilty for how out of hand this got, when HP became king again, and they could charge what they wanted for it.

It’s called supply and demand... The cars have been “allowed” to evolve to where they can utilize 900 hp and it’s a racers responsibility to do his/her utmost to win, that’s competition. So if a racer can use 900 hp he’ll go to whomever can supply that to him. If a motor builder wants customers he has to “supply” what the customer wants/needs, if it’s 900 then he does what he can to give it to the customer and passes along the cost, that’s business. Blaming anyone in the supply chain is naive and IMHO a liberal way of thinking and frankly un-American. The rule making/enforcing bodies set the stage, they dictate how and where we can play. For decades the powers that be have been asleep at the switch and deralic in their duties. Bit by bit old rules that served us well have been dropped or ignored and now we are here. They should have nipped the beast in the bud back in 98’ when all this hike up junk got started, because everything bad we have now was born from that bastardization. The simplest least expensive fix is to unhook the cars, put a travel limiter on the LR set to no more than 2 inches droop from ride height and put a maximum nose height back to 6 inches from ground, at ride height. Then we can talk about noses being WAY to wide and bodies that are a joke. As long as 900 hp is usable there exists a demand and someone willing to buy it and someone to supply it. Any solution that doesn’t involve unhooking the cars will only result in a crate car result and they suck.

[Mike]

Here's what I'd do, and it wouldn't even change the look of the cars that much.

Straighten the noses.

Make the ears equal on both sides, max 1" higher than the filler panel.

Make the deck and doors flat as a pancake from the back of the hood to the spoiler.

Doors, quarters, and skirts have to be equal height on both sides.

Flat and level roof.

Fill in the sail panels, if you want a window, it's gotta be covered with lexan.

cut the spoiler down to 4".

You could tech all of this with a tape measure and a level.

Look at you wanting to obsolete parts.... Wasn’t that your complaint about 5 years ago when people were talking about reigning in the bodies?

[Mike]

Get the bodies back to late 1990s specs. Remove the spoiler. Consider decrease in tire size. Done.

Move on to cure for cancer.

Do you think people are really ready for a change?

These simple solutions have been brought up for years and 1/3 of the people would say everything is fine it’s just a down economy right now when the economy recovers DLR recovers, 1/3 would act like it’s rocket science and say those simple solutions would do nothing, and the other 1/3 would say rules are what makes it expensive it should be a run what you brung class.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

When the next financial downturn is actually here, something may happen.

Rules can make it expensive. Especially when they are used to try and force people to unlearn new ideas that fix flaws in an existing car. Rules that are enforced with a tape measure are simple and effective. Rules that prohibit items outright usually fail. Rules that naturally remove the advantage of the part are much more effective.

[Mike]

When the next financial downturn is actually here, something may happen.

Rules can make it expensive. Especially when they are used to try and force people to unlearn new ideas that fix flaws in an existing car. Rules that are enforced with a tape measure are simple and effective. Rules that prohibit items outright usually fail. Rules that naturally remove the advantage of the part are much more effective.

An argument can be made the lack of enforcing simple and effective rules that can be easily checked with a tape measure has lead us to where we are today.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Cage

I agree with your post, you got to give them what they want.

But at times, big brother needs to rein us in, enforce the existing rules, and create ones to stop where we are now. A mix of capitalism, free market, big brother, finding that fine line. Just letting free rein go on gets us where we are.

There are a few of you on here who have really good ideas. And I hate the doom and gloom mentality, but if you look, you can see plainly that the late models are heading to a bad place. The 410’s I think could possibly be cheaper now, I have no idea.

[dirty-white-boy]

in the words by Kid Rock "What we need here is a Dirt Late Model Jesus to save us all" But who will it be?

[Josh Bayko]

@ Mike

I didn't obsolete parts except for a spoiler and maybe new ears. New bodies go on these cars every year. They'd just have to raise the front t-bar and lower the rear t-bar and straighten out the nose they already have. None of the expensive bits underneath would be obsoleted.

[Mike]

I didn't obsolete parts except for a spoiler and maybe new ears. New bodies go on these cars every year. They'd just have to raise the front t-bar and lower the rear t-bar and straighten out the nose they already have. None of the expensive bits underneath would be obsoleted.

It wasn’t that long ago you didn’t want to change anything at all for fear of obsoleting parts.

[TBSprintFan]

Didn't Steve Francis quit because of all these reasons, so you would think he could get a handle on the rules to keep costs down whatever it may be, which would be for the benefit of all series, local tracks and drivers too.