let's chat

[brad hibbard]

E85 VS NON oxygenated gas ----if rules permit E85 ---it is a no brainer ---E85 wins in all power and acceleration aspects
the downside to the power gains in this situation are non oxygenated race gas is very consistent and stores well with a decent shelf life making it user friendly
the fuel system including carburetor are very basic for NON oxygenated gas ----where E85 fuel can be very inconsistent needing tested and adjusted periodically
the E85 fuel system has specific requirements and carburetors are specific built

E85 VS oxygenated race gas-----this is weather specific
in cooler weather conditions the oxygenated race gas is a better power source
in hotter environments E85 becomes the dominant fuel

this is all just a touch on the subject but should give you some basic comparisons

Brad

https://www.race-1.com

[fastford]

hey brad , what are you paying where your at for oxygenated fuel ? my sonoco supplier next door quoted me like 14 bucks a gallon last year , just curious.....

[brad hibbard]

holy monkeys ford----I hope you decided that a new RR tire was a better choice...

I honestly have no idea what folks are paying for it ---I always make people send me the fuel they are using

I don't think it's $14 a gallon though---I here grumbling about fuel cost but at 14 bucks a gallon I would expect to hear screaming

there has to be a line somewhere for how much is too much and if it were me ---that is over the line

Brad

https://www.race-1.com

[fastford]

regular old 110 down here is 9 a gal now , we have put every thing on e85 now , and yes , we can buy a new tire about every night with the savings...

[over4T]

Sunoco 110 is a minimum of $10 out here in NorCal. The 112 & 114 stuff is 12-14. And regular pump is is in the mid $3 range. California can't blame the race gas prices on their winter and summer blends like the they do the pump stuff.

E85 at the pump is only at a few stations within a 100 mile radius of me and the good race E85 not within 150+ and goes for around the same as 110 so it really isn't a choice. Pure alky isn't allowed in the stocker stuff for the most part. We're pretty much choiceless, if that's a word.

[brad hibbard]

choiceless is a word that I understand--LOL
but not sure I agree----I assume you are running a crate and crates operate just fine on pump gas
find a station that is moving a decent amount of premium (93) and stay with that station
always purge the pump before filling your race fuel jugs---(put 5 gallons in your truck first or use it for your mower)
the important part is keep your timing at 32 no matter what your "buddy" tells you
the only part of pump gas that worries me is in hot weather or when the race car is too tight or not enough gear
for hot weather condition you can add a little octane booster to it

with the money you save you can keep fresh tires on it and that little bit of HP that you lose will be made up 5 times over in the center of the corner

JMO
Brad

https://www.race-1.com

[over4T]

Nope,Brad, never have had a crate. Building my own engines is one of my great pleasures in this sport although, on occasion, they bite me. Good parts but no Bryant cranks, Dyer rods, etc. The engine savings alone almost cover my tire bill.
The highest pump octane on most of the west coast is only 91 and most of the crate guys seem to run okay on it. I've tried some blends of 110 & 91 last season , 2 to 1, but pulled down that engine for a freshen over this winter and saw some light signs of detonation the piston tops. That's a 10.5 compression one, about the lowest I build with 32-34 degree timing.So I'll just bite the bullet again this season on the high $ gas.
Over 60 years in this sport and did pretty well in my business and saved some money and, hopefully, I don't spend it all before I croak. My son, gladly helps me spend his inheritance.
Shoot, in another 15 or 20 years they'll be racing Priuses and I'm sure I'll be done by then. I appreciate your help for the crate guys.

[brad hibbard]

I hear ya on the prius (electric cars)
I have a young buck in the shop and he is convinced that Race-1 needs to begin transitioning toward the electric racing market.
I can't even wrap my head around this LS stuff where they set timing with a laptop ---how in the world am I gonna work on something that doesn't even have pistons or use gasoline---LOL

not sure where all this is going but i have to ride it out since i have invested every extra penny I have earned for 45 years into my business rather than some retirement fund (like a smart person would do)
actually in my younger days I would have never guessed that I would live this long so I never worried about it.

who knows ---I might catch onto the electric stuff
I remember telling everyone that crate racing would never work and look at me now--LOL

Brad

https://www.race-1.com

[fastford]

if you are going to keep building gm motors , you better get familiar with that ls stuff , i have 3 in the shop right now , i like them though , pretty simple and well built.....

[brad hibbard]

I get what you are saying-----and I am as guilty as it comes to fighting change
but from a business standpoint it is really hard for me to take the time to be fluent on the LS stuff when I have a non stop line of 602/604 engines---we are on a 4 to 6 week backlog right now on new engines and our rebuild program is booked through next year
my biggest fear is that our dyno has a failure that takes more than a day or 2 to fix.
everyone in the shop has a list and a schedule that is weeks out.
with that said ---how do you focus or attend to LS programs.
the little bit that we dabble with it gives us an understanding but by no means am I comfortable offering up any information on LS engines

my grandpa did tell me if you deal in pennies you will make pennies and if you deal in dollars you will make dollars
the LS stuff certainly is dollars compared to the 602/604 world and I guess I need to start investing in the future.
I still want to use a timing light though---LOL

thanks for listening
Brad

https://www.race-1.com

[fastford]

there not really that complicated brad , there are a lot of little things that you have to learn , but i had just as soon build one now as a 350 , i am a dealer now with texas speed and they are tops IMO right now on LS tech and parts , most things are still basic knowledge though , like with a stroker crank , you have to run a smaller base circle cam , now they have shaft rockers so you set your rocker to valve geometry with shims and leave it alone , then use a push rod checker to get correct push rod , this is more critical on hydraulic lifters than solid and takes a bit more precision , but no rocket science here.......

[brad hibbard]

we are much more a tune up facility rather than a rebuild facility----definitely not a "build" facility
we are sticking with crate stuff that is spec---the CT525 is really all I am looking at in the LS world
we have some shops that send us injected LS engines for Dyno and I make them send a technician for the tune

I have a young buck in the shop that has interest in this computer controlled stuff and together we are educating ourselves but I gotta tell ya ---going from points and condenser to HEI to MSD ---I don't know if I have the energy for this coil pack world (and no timing light)

I know--I know

5 years from now I will be praising LS stuff

Brad

https://www.race-1.com

[ZERO25]

Has anyone tried a stock type transmission with a 602 or 604? If so which one did you use and what was your experience with it?Thx.

[brad hibbard]

that's not uncommon at all in street stock divisions.
the 3 speed saginaw or muncie 4 speeds with 1st and 2nd gear removed are very common set-ups
stock style clutches or triple disc depending on rules is also common
I don't think shifting on restarts is all that common like it used to be back in the day but this stuff is still around and used successfully.

my oldest daughter started driving a modified last year and it has a powerglide behind a 602
this year I am going to put a muncie in it just so she learns how to drive stick
it will eventually end up with a BERT but these kids today have no idea how to operate a clutch and they just might have to drive a 70's pick up truck some day and need that knowledge---LOL

Brad

https://www.race-1.com

[ZERO25]

In my area, a 602 lm gets a 200lb weight break against the 604's. Im thinking a special built 3 or 4 spd might equalize the hp on re-starts and help keep the momentum through the corner.