Trump vs Elon

[Tyy7777]

Get your popcorn ready!!! We have ourselves a messy divorce!!!

It really kicked off when Elon (rightfully) criticsed Trump's spending bill. A range of things happened in between BUT NOW.....

Elon has just publicly stated that Trump IS in the Epstein Files and that's why they haven't been released. Not shocking to myself or anyone in the MAGA cult. Wonder what more Elon will spill in the near future??

Trump is now cancelling Elon's government contracts. Elon is now going off on tariffs.

What a few days we have!

[lurker]

I figured you’d post about this. More Trump drama, just what we need.

[Morgs153]

In professional wrestling they call it Kayfabe.

Sorry, but I'm just not taking this all too serious just yet. I am getting a kick out of it though. I mean, finally now we have Democrats lining up and demanding the Epstein stuff and Ghislaine's little black book gets released. Yes, please, do it. The hope of finding Trump out at the island just isn't there. He appears on a few flight logs back in the 90s traveling with then wife Marla and his daughter Tiffany back to New York with one trip to Washington DC. Let's see the whole thing though. Heck, I wanna know Elon's sources. If Bondi, Bongino and Patel haven't even got their hands on all the stuff how does Elon know? It's all theater and DC is theater for the ugly.

So does this mean that the Lorax bl0wing tree hugger lefties can start driving Teslas again? No more swastikas on Teslas? No more firebombing Tesla dealerships? I need an answer on this one because one of my renters drives a Tesla. Seems like a really nice guy but I gotta know what the marching orders are.

[Tyy7777]

In professional wrestling they call it Kayfabe.

Sorry, but I'm just not taking this all too serious just yet. I am getting a kick out of it though. I mean, finally now we have Democrats lining up and demanding the Epstein stuff and Ghislaine's little black book gets released. Yes, please, do it. The hope of finding Trump out at the island just isn't there. He appears on a few flight logs back in the 90s traveling with then wife Marla and his daughter Tiffany back to New York with one trip to Washington DC. Let's see the whole thing though. Heck, I wanna know Elon's sources. If Bondi, Bongino and Patel haven't even got their hands on all the stuff how does Elon know? It's all theater and DC is theater for the ugly.

So does this mean that the Lorax bl0wing tree hugger lefties can start driving Teslas again? No more swastikas on Teslas? No more firebombing Tesla dealerships? I need an answer on this one because one of my renters drives a Tesla. Seems like a really nice guy but I gotta know what the marching orders are.

Of course you think its staged, your in a cult!

No, we still hate Elon. Well I do at least. I don't think he's lying however. Everything he stood for has been undermined. There's a reason people that come out of the Trump administration(s) never have anything nice to say.

Anyway, check this video out.

https://x.com/Chesschick01/status/1930725403464806660

[Morgs153]

I don't think Musk was wrong either. The people he assembled discovered unimaginable waste, fraud, and abuse of our tax dollars. I'm sure he believed he was performing a patriotic duty and he just wanted to be taken serious and have his contribution appreciated. Then came the Build Back a Big Beautiful and Better Budget Bill (or whatever) and the spending s1uts in Congress. Musk is a numbers guy and understands millions, billions, and trillions. Trump is a numbers guy and he gets that as well, but he also gets 218, 51 and 1 and that's the political part of it. I get it. I'm not happy with it either. Both parties are addicted to spending. Codependents just hanging out together in DC.

I can't imagine why we can't go back to a federal budget at a pre-Covid base number adjusted for inflation. Let's just start there first and then try to work toward a balanced budget.

The media loves this story. They love covering this story. It's a shiny object. They love it because it takes the focus away from how they didn't focus on the obvious decline of the last person in the Oval Office. How they not only ignored the obvious but joined in on the BS surrounding it.

[Tyy7777]

I don't think Musk was wrong either. The people he assembled discovered unimaginable waste, fraud, and abuse of our tax dollars. I'm sure he believed he was performing a patriotic duty and he just wanted to be taken serious and have his contribution appreciated. Then came the Build Back a Big Beautiful and Better Budget Bill (or whatever) and the spending s1uts in Congress. Musk is a numbers guy and understands millions, billions, and trillions. Trump is a numbers guy and he gets that as well, but he also gets 218, 51 and 1 and that's the political part of it. I get it. I'm not happy with it either. Both parties are addicted to spending. Codependents just hanging out together in DC.

I can't imagine why we can't go back to a federal budget at a pre-Covid base number adjusted for inflation. Let's just start there first and then try to work toward a balanced budget.

The media loves this story. They love covering this story. It's a shiny object. They love it because it takes the focus away from how they didn't focus on the obvious decline of the last person in the Oval Office. How they not only ignored the obvious but joined in on the BS surrounding it.

I don't think Trump really knows how to play the game so to speak. He just bullies his way around. That's what 2028 is about. Maintaining loyalty.

The budget is bad. It has been for a while. Both sides have let it get out of hand. Democrats pretend it's not really an issue. This is why I'm a fan of Pete Buttigieg. He seems to be the only one living in reality at the moment and calling a spade a spade.

Interest rates have skyrocketed so I'm not sure we could go back to a pre-covid budget because we'd have to cut significant amounts and I don't believe that to be a pragmatic approach.

First thing I'd do is cut defense spending. It's not that I don't care about our country's safety, it's just that it's out of hand. The 2nd largest Air Force in the World is the US Navy. Do we really need that?

Secondly, I'd rework Tax Expenditures and Tax Breaks. As of 2021 50% of the 13 largest Tax Breaks go towards the top 20% of earners. I'd also look to repeal some corporate tax breaks. That is wrong on so many levels.

Thirdly, I'd raise corporate taxes back up and make some small changes to personal taxes.

But really we just need to stop giving out tax breaks. It's insane.

We then need to look at our various services and institutions and do an audit. Now you could say this is what DOGE was supposed to do but I think that was done recklessly and with some other motives but I digress.

We need to stop giving out tax breaks, change our defense philosophy, reduce spending and then look at sensible and pragmatic solutions to stimulate growth.

[lurker]

This is why I'm a fan of Pete Buttigieg. He seems to be the only one living in reality at the moment and calling a spade a spade.

You must not live close to South Bend. Like I do.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/op...e/78019570007/ - Pete Buttigieg’s failures will play in Senate race

Dennis Lennox The Detroit News

“Democrats thinking of joining the Buttigieg train should ask themselves one question: Do they want to risk losing the seat by nominating one of Biden’s failed cabinet secretaries? - ”https://www.detroitnews.com/story/op...e/78019570007/

More - https://www.google.com/search?q=sout...=9a89f9cc1281a c79&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS852US852&sxsrf=AE3TifNujdij4mn p9Y54lshNMlTmHazPVw%3A1749274964413&ei=VNFDaJj_GIL 9ptQPo6qnoQM&ved=0ahUKEwiY-fiGzd6NAxWCvokEHSPVKTQQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=south+ben d+failure+&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiE3NvdXRoIGJlb mQgZmFpbHVyZSAyBBAjGCcyCBAAGIAEGKIEMgUQABjvBTIIEAA YgAQYogQyCBAAGIAEGKIESKdDUMkZWMkZcAF4AJABAJgBf6ABf 6oBAzAuMbgBA8gBAPgBAZgCAaACjgGYAwCIBgGSBwMwLjGgB8c EsgcDMC4xuAeOAcIHAzMtMcgHDA&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

[Tyy7777]

You must not live close to South Bend. Like I do.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/op...e/78019570007/ - Pete Buttigieg’s failures will play in Senate race

Dennis Lennox The Detroit News

“Democrats thinking of joining the Buttigieg train should ask themselves one question: Do they want to risk losing the seat by nominating one of Biden’s failed cabinet secretaries?”

More - https://www.google.com/search?q=sout...=9a89f9cc1281a c79&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS852US852&sxsrf=AE3TifNujdij4mn p9Y54lshNMlTmHazPVw%3A1749274964413&ei=VNFDaJj_GIL 9ptQPo6qnoQM&ved=0ahUKEwiY-fiGzd6NAxWCvokEHSPVKTQQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=south+ben d+failure+&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiE3NvdXRoIGJlb mQgZmFpbHVyZSAyBBAjGCcyCBAAGIAEGKIEMgUQABjvBTIIEAA YgAQYogQyCBAAGIAEGKIESKdDUMkZWMkZcAF4AJABAJgBf6ABf 6oBAzAuMbgBA8gBAPgBAZgCAaACjgGYAwCIBgGSBwMwLjGgB8c EsgcDMC4xuAeOAcIHAzMtMcgHDA&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

Just to clarify, I'm not endorsing Buttigieg. It's too early. I simply think he is the one who is talking the most sense out of the Democratic Party.

Now from a quick bit of research it appears the Detroit News are a Factual Center Right paper. So they post factual information but tend to lay it all out in a way favoring republicans.

Now yes, Buttigieg had no transportation experience BUT he was a young, bright mind and aligned well enough with Biden and was seen as someone that Dems wanted to get experience. Besides, in a department like Transportation, it isn't uncommon for secretaries to not have experience. Prior experience becomes a factor in things like Treasury and Justice.

In regards to the East Palestine incident, Pete apologized for not making a public statement and appearance sooner. It should also be noted that several agencies are involved in those kinds of issues. I don't quite what the article then tries to criticize him for, especially considering he succeeded an administration that deregulated relevant industries. Pete also made several efforts to call for better standards and also introduced relevant legislation.

Now in terms of the labor disputes that isn't the responsibility of the DOT. Now sure, it might have been nice if Pete was physically in attendance but I'm well sure he was consistently on the phone and pulling strings. The NMB manages those disputes as well as congress if necessary. Besides, that vacation could have been long planned.

The article then oversimplifies the Spirit Airlines situation. If I recall correctly one of the main reasons Pete opposed it was because of concerns it would weaken competition and raise prices.

The worst part of the article is the FAA spiel.

The FAA had been facing shortages long before Buttigieg came in. Obama tried to get money into the FAA but the Republican led house kept stripping that away. Funding to the FAA ended up being slashed. The employment of certified controllers continued to go down during Trump's first term before reaching a low point in 2020. Since then, numbers have gone back UP to PRE-TRUMP figures. So while there remains significant shortages, the way in which they used that fact was pretty misleading.

[lurker]

While you may not endorse “Pete” right now, you do sound like a parroting apologist in your reply. “Pete” isn't the guy. Hopefully you think long and hard before endorsing “Pete”.


Pick me centrist Democrats, and I might get on board in the future.


Centrist Democrats articles - https://www.google.com/search?q=centrist+democrats&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS852US8 52&oq=centrist+dem&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgAEAAYgA Q yBwgAEAAYgAQyBggBEEUYOTIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHC AQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAg QABiABDIHCAkQABiABNIBCjMzMjAzajBqMTWoAgywAgHxBWyBm Z5SHNft&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The one article that stood out is this one.

Centrist Democrats are convinced they hold the answers to their party’s problems - https://www.politico.com/news/2025/0...party-00387956

[Morgs153]

Raise corporate taxes.

That always sounds like such an easy and palatable fix. Especially to those who view everything through the lens of oppressor and oppressed. But corporations don't really pay those taxes, the end user of the products those corporations provide ultimately pay those taxes. Individuals, people, consumers, us. Corporations have a balance sheet, assets and liabilities. Sure, you can theoretically raise their taxes but they just pass on the costs to their end users. That is how we end up with off-shoring and corporations moving to other locations where costs of labor and taxation (doing business) are more favorable, often to other countries if those corporations are big enough to sustain the move. Then say goodbye to the jobs they provided.

I'm not saying they deserve a free ride, but there's a balance there as well. They are balancing labor costs, maybe dealing with unions. They almost certainly have a much stricter regulatory climate in the US than most other places and that costs them money in regards to a myriad of compliance issues. We've already seen what happens when they get pushed too far. They move on. Mexico has been quite happy to take all those auto worker jobs in Hermosa (as just one example) and assemble things in a half-@ssed fashion for a quarter of the cost. Ask the John Deere workers in Iowa how things are going after they moved so many jobs to Mexico.

We're addicted to the cheap sh!t from China. The crap that they can stuff into containers and move across an ocean for less cost than it can be made - here. That's part of the tariff argument. If you want to leave here and make it there, then it's going to cost you extra to sell it - here. A sort of raised corporate tax - if you will.

[Morgs153]

The size and scope of the US Navy and defense spending.

For sure there is a lot to be cleaned up in the Pentagon in the way of waste, fraud, and abuse. We have at least as many admirals as we have ships. That's too many flag officers. Our Army has twice as many generals as when we prosecuted WWII. That's too many.

Compare the population of Europe, as a whole, to the US. That's about 500 million to our 330 million. Now compare their levels of defense spending to GDP and ours and it isn't even close. Compare the sizes of their military components (in the aggregate) to ours and it still is not close. They have been living off the protective strength of the US for now near a century. Ukraine/Russia has been primarily a European problem yet all the crying is directed at how much we have to help and we have to spend? In whose backyard?

When Houthi rebels (under direction of Iranian controllers) were shutting down the sea lanes in and out of the Suez Canal region who's trade did that most effect? It is not the United States that gets most of the benefit of the Suez Canal being free, accessible, and open. It is Europe and Asia, that's their primary shipping lane. Just check any maritime map. Where was the carrier battle group from Germany? Where was the carrier battle group from Norway? They weren't there because they don't exist. We were there with three restoring order to their shipping lanes for their primary benefit and they can't probably put together three carrier action groups collectively.

So yes, there's a bigger issue of other nations stepping up and doing their part. We might have some within our government who like the role of world's policeman and the doctrine of Alfred Thayer Mahan as it applies to our naval forces. We don't want to give up an edge with an emerging threat of China's global ambitions. Those are debates to have. But it can be easily argued that the EU needs to step up and not continue to sponge off the US and especially step up their obligations in NATO if NATO is to survive as a useful entity.

But yeah, I'm all for cleaning up the waste, fraud, and abuse in some aspects of spending. There are absolutely some debacles in weapons systems development and acquisition. Right here in my home state they build Littoral Combat Ships that Navy doesn't even want. They call them little crappy ships because of the long list of failures and the expected combat lifespan of about one half hour in a real world fight. The Navy has been retiring them well ahead of their expected lifespan. So for sure, we can be smarter and more frugal in a lot of places.

[Tyy7777]

While you may not endorse “Pete” right now, you do sound like a parroting apologist in your reply. “Pete” isn't the guy. Hopefully you think long and hard before endorsing “Pete”.


Pick me centrist Democrats, and I might get on board in the future.


Centrist Democrats articles - https://www.google.com/search?q=centrist+democrats&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS852US8 52&oq=centrist+dem&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgAEAAYgA Q yBwgAEAAYgAQyBggBEEUYOTIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHC AQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAg QABiABDIHCAkQABiABNIBCjMzMjAzajBqMTWoAgywAgHxBWyBm Z5SHNft&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The one article that stood out is this one.

Centrist Democrats are convinced they hold the answers to their party’s problems - https://www.politico.com/news/2025/0...party-00387956

I didn't apologize for Pete.

That article was a fishing expedition with no substance, hence why I picked it apart. It was misleading.

Pete is a centrist democrat.

[Tyy7777]

Raise corporate taxes.

That always sounds like such an easy and palatable fix. Especially to those who view everything through the lens of oppressor and oppressed. But corporations don't really pay those taxes, the end user of the products those corporations provide ultimately pay those taxes. Individuals, people, consumers, us. Corporations have a balance sheet, assets and liabilities. Sure, you can theoretically raise their taxes but they just pass on the costs to their end users. That is how we end up with off-shoring and corporations moving to other locations where costs of labor and taxation (doing business) are more favorable, often to other countries if those corporations are big enough to sustain the move. Then say goodbye to the jobs they provided.

I'm not saying they deserve a free ride, but there's a balance there as well. They are balancing labor costs, maybe dealing with unions. They almost certainly have a much stricter regulatory climate in the US than most other places and that costs them money in regards to a myriad of compliance issues. We've already seen what happens when they get pushed too far. They move on. Mexico has been quite happy to take all those auto worker jobs in Hermosa (as just one example) and assemble things in a half-@ssed fashion for a quarter of the cost. Ask the John Deere workers in Iowa how things are going after they moved so many jobs to Mexico.

We're addicted to the cheap sh!t from China. The crap that they can stuff into containers and move across an ocean for less cost than it can be made - here. That's part of the tariff argument. If you want to leave here and make it there, then it's going to cost you extra to sell it - here. A sort of raised corporate tax - if you will.

That's kind of a myth. Consumers don't really have a large share in the burden. The effect is somewhat debated. Some say it's little, some say it's predominantly on the workers. I'll go with the most neutral response relative to our positions. Essentially it was found to be a three-way split between shareholders, workers and consumers. It was found in a 2020 study cited by the Tax Foundation that for everyone 1% tax rate increase, prices went up by 0.17%. It's also been found that a similar decrease applied for wages. So yes, there was an increase but it wasn't linear. I'm not wanting to make things cheaper for people by doing this. It's about raising revenue, something we desperately need to do. Besides, even with lower tax rates brought in by Trump, they didn't pass that on. Trump said 70% would go to workers but most of it went towards tock buybacks. Profits went up, but companies never passed in on and in a lot cases had negative effects (source below). A lot of companies to begin with aren't paying their fair share through various tax breaks.

Now of course we should aim to be a competitive market for investment, but you have to find a balance. We have tipped the scales way too far in one direction. The current rate is not balanced and businesses aren't paying what they should be. That's a huge amount of money we are missing out on. Again, it's about a balance. I don't agree with the proposals shared by more left-leaning Dems but the Republicans don't have it figured out either.

Regulations are a GOOD thing. You should be glad you live in a country that values those things. As are unions. You should be glad you live in a country that values labor.

Labor costs are actually quite competitive, especially compared with Europe. Could we do more to make regulation more efficient? Yes. But it IS a GOOD thing. We should not sacrifice public value. Running a country isn't like running a business.

Mexican Auto manufacturing is not half-a33ed. That's just not true. Tariffs aren't a solution. They are more directly passed on to the consumer. They also don't guarantee anything. It doesn't mean manufacturers will flock back to the US. It doesn't mean that even if they did, those jobs would be taken up by humans. It's unreasonable to expect companies to flock here. We don't need to be a huge manufacturing nation. That isn't how the world works.

I do agree on the China thing. I think it's just because of our hyper-consumerism society. People just love buying sh1t.

https://time.com/7287955/big-business-trumps-tax-cuts-essay/

[Tyy7777]

The size and scope of the US Navy and defense spending.

For sure there is a lot to be cleaned up in the Pentagon in the way of waste, fraud, and abuse. We have at least as many admirals as we have ships. That's too many flag officers. Our Army has twice as many generals as when we prosecuted WWII. That's too many.

Compare the population of Europe, as a whole, to the US. That's about 500 million to our 330 million. Now compare their levels of defense spending to GDP and ours and it isn't even close. Compare the sizes of their military components (in the aggregate) to ours and it still is not close. They have been living off the protective strength of the US for now near a century. Ukraine/Russia has been primarily a European problem yet all the crying is directed at how much we have to help and we have to spend? In whose backyard?

When Houthi rebels (under direction of Iranian controllers) were shutting down the sea lanes in and out of the Suez Canal region who's trade did that most effect? It is not the United States that gets most of the benefit of the Suez Canal being free, accessible, and open. It is Europe and Asia, that's their primary shipping lane. Just check any maritime map. Where was the carrier battle group from Germany? Where was the carrier battle group from Norway? They weren't there because they don't exist. We were there with three restoring order to their shipping lanes for their primary benefit and they can't probably put together three carrier action groups collectively.

So yes, there's a bigger issue of other nations stepping up and doing their part. We might have some within our government who like the role of world's policeman and the doctrine of Alfred Thayer Mahan as it applies to our naval forces. We don't want to give up an edge with an emerging threat of China's global ambitions. Those are debates to have. But it can be easily argued that the EU needs to step up and not continue to sponge off the US and especially step up their obligations in NATO if NATO is to survive as a useful entity.

But yeah, I'm all for cleaning up the waste, fraud, and abuse in some aspects of spending. There are absolutely some debacles in weapons systems development and acquisition. Right here in my home state they build Littoral Combat Ships that Navy doesn't even want. They call them little crappy ships because of the long list of failures and the expected combat lifespan of about one half hour in a real world fight. The Navy has been retiring them well ahead of their expected lifespan. So for sure, we can be smarter and more frugal in a lot of places.

I honestly think our defense department just makes sh1t for the sake of it. It's ridiculous. We don't need TWO world leading air forces. The threat of war is exaggerated anyway.

Unfortunately I don't think we'll see change until we A) change attitudes around defense and war and B) stop congress members from investing.

Defense is a very safe outlet for congressmen and women to invest in. Predictable and well-tied to government.

[Morgs153]

"That's kind of a myth. Consumers don't really have a large share in the burden. The effect is somewhat debated. Some say it's little, some say it's predominantly on the workers. I'll go with the most neutral response relative to our positions. Essentially it was found to be a three-way split between shareholders, workers and consumers."

And those are all - individuals. People.

There. You. Go.