Charlie Kirk

[lurker]

Since I last posted, I’ve sat on this waiting for my brain to process something valuable to say, but my “engagement” function is still out to lunch on ANY replies, and I’m still at a loss for words on a lot of levels. Other than what a lot of people are saying —---- We are at a tipping point in America, and in American Politics. I’m not a wordsmith anymore like I once was years ago, and I’m not sure how to respond, yet I want to keep an open dialog and discussion but I’m not sure how to do that with both sides differing so much in opinions. (sorry for the run-on sentences)

[Morgs153]

Well, it appears someone is back from "holiday".

Stay engaged lurker. You're a good dude with rational things to share.

[Tyy7777]

Since I last posted, I’ve sat on this waiting for my brain to process something valuable to say, but my “engagement” function is still out to lunch on ANY replies, and I’m still at a loss for words on a lot of levels. Other than what a lot of people are saying —---- We are at a tipping point in America, and in American Politics. I’m not a wordsmith anymore like I once was years ago, and I’m not sure how to respond, yet I want to keep an open dialog and discussion but I’m not sure how to do that with both sides differing so much in opinions. (sorry for the run-on sentences)

I'd argue we have tipped over the point.

We obviously have fundamental disagreements as to what caused that. All I'll say is that we started tipping a lot faster right around 2016.

You don't have to be a wordsmith. Just lay out your points and your reasoning.

[lurker]

Thanks Morgs and Ty.

[Tyy7777]

I really hope the two of you will take the time to read all of this and use it to reflect on recent events.

Every country has their moments of shame. No other developed country consistently flirts with the idea of staying there.

This county has become morally lost and bankrupt. There seems to be not only a toleration of political violence and inflammatory rhetoric, but an expectation of an amount that stoops to the level of countries like Columbia and Pakistan. From the minute Charlie was shot, the conversation very quickly turned to asking whether or not he deserved he to die.

When JFK was assassinated, officials from both sides of politics and media outlets of all biases, were quick to condemn the acts and call for national unity. That's important, remember that. They understood that it was an attack on the presidency, a vital institution. It was an attack not so much on the person as it was the game.

Coming back to the modern day, before the shooter was even caught, before we knew their political leanings and before Charlie was even laid to rest, leading Republicans and media figures jumped to blame the Democrats and call for reprisals. As Charlie laid limp, the Republicans threw his carcass into their endless mill of political point scoring. Fox News, Trump, Musk it goes on and on. All of this was done as if it was a standard response for not just a western party with the ability to get into government, but actually is in government. The kind of response seen is reserved for the lowest of lows in western democracies. It's commonplace now. I haven't even began to mention the disturbing amount of normalcy that the Republicans treated the assassination of Melissa Hortman with.

The Democrats uniformly condemned the acts. Biden, Obama, Newsom the list goes on. They condemned the acts, called for political violence to end and then gave their prayers to Charlie's family. They didn't look to score points and they didn't look to justify it because they know, just like everyone did in '63, that this is an attack not on a person but more so an institution. They didn't look to make an example out of Charlie and they didn't call for more violence.

We then have a third group. A group of typically younger, chronically online individuals who were once relegated to the most fringe and dark forums of the internet. This group looked to justify the murder of Kirk. It's their own version of "I'm not racist, but" only this time it's "I don't condone violence, but," and that "but" is followed by an essay explaining why they think the murder was deserved but also why they think they are morally superior for it. A worrying amount of young people are increasingly condoning violence and it's because that same group are increasingly online. It isn't so much a political issue with this particular group of people as it is an internet issue.

The response has become about the man. The media has widely focused on the man when in reality it should and needs to be about the institution.

What group had the appropriate response here? What group had a response that showed an understanding of how dangerous this attack was on our democracy? I sure know who I'd pick.

[lurker]

Ty, honestly, I’m at a point where I do not want to reply anymore as I feel it will offend you or come off argumentatively —--or me being and a$$. I don’t want any of the three. We don’t need that anymore.

I did read it all, 3x.

[Tyy7777]

Ty, honestly, I’m at a point where I do not want to reply anymore as I feel it will offend you or come off argumentatively —--or me being and a$$. I don’t want any of the three. We don’t need that anymore.

I did read it all, 3x.

I don't take the time to write replies to be scared of a response.

I'm all ears.

[ss12]

Charlie Sheen and Capt. KIRk are still alive. So I don't know what the big deal is.

[lurker]

Ty, like I said —---- “We are at a tipping point in America, and in American Politics.” And people like ss12 are the vitriol, hate, and anger coming from the Left. What an utter disgrace to mankind for posting that. And sure, maybe the tipping point goes back as far as you think. Nonetheless, where was the outrage from the Leftist voting public back when cities were being burnt and looted in 2020?

[lurker]

I don't take the time to write replies to be scared of a response.


I'm all ears.

I just don’t want to be part of the problem.

[Tyy7777]

Ty, like I said —---- “We are at a tipping point in America, and in American Politics.” And people like ss12 are the vitriol, hate, and anger coming from the Left. What an utter disgrace to mankind for posting that. And sure, maybe the tipping point goes back as far as you think. Nonetheless, where was the outrage from the Leftist voting public back when cities were being burnt and looted in 2020?

I think what ss12 posted was very poor taste and I'm not a fan. He as an individual does not solely represent the left. Does the right not express vitriol, hate and anger?

Democratic officials by and large condemned the looting and rioting in 2020.

“Protesting such brutality is right and necessary. It’s an utterly American response. But burning down communities and needless destruction is not. Violence that endangers lives is not. Violence that guts and shutters businesses that serve the community is not.” - Joe Biden.

"We support peaceful demonstrations. We participate in them. They are part of the essence of our democracy. That does not include looting, starting fires, or rioting. They should be prosecuted. That is lawlessness.” - Nancy Pelosi.

[Tyy7777]

I just don’t want to be part of the problem.

We're here to have a conversation aren't we?

[lurker]

Democratic officials by and large condemned the looting and rioting in 2020.

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where was the outrage from the Leftist voting public

[lurker]

Does the right not express vitriol, hate and anger?

And it's only going to get much worse. Charlie’s assassination woke up hundreds of thousands of Charlie Kirk’s.

[Tyy7777]

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Well a 2020 poll of adult Americans found only 22% approved of the violence. So at worst it's still a small minority.

My broader question is why does this matter? The voter base is much wider politically than the two parties and it's the ideology of the party that matters.

For example, many progressives will still "vote blue no matter who", however their beliefs are much further left than that of the actual party. It's also usually these ones who make the most noise. Their opinions are irrelevant. The DNC doesn't pander to these people. The same obviously goes for the far-right.

The issue is that the Republicans mentioned above are IN government. It just isn't far right-extremists that are using Kirk's death to immediately score points by blaming Dems and trying to incite more violence, it's the Republicans IN government. That's the issue.