A video for ALL Americans

[RATFINK]

Proverbs 26:4-14

4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes. 6 Like cutting off one's feet or drinking violence is the sending of a message by the hand of a fool. 7 Like a lame man's legs that hang limp is a proverb in the mouth of a fool. 8 Like tying a stone in a sling is the giving of honor to a fool. 9 Like a thornbush in a drunkard's hand is a proverb in the mouth of a fool. 10 Like an archer who wounds at random is he who hires a fool or any passer-by. 11 As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly. 12 Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him. 13 The sluggard says, "There is a lion in the road, a fierce lion roaming the streets!" 14 As a door turns on its hinges, so a sluggard turns on his bed.

[skids]

nature's god not god's nature - thomas jefferson////////

What is that supposed to mean? Not sure what your argument is.

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians They were Deists who did not believe the bible was true. ... They spoke often of God, (Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible. ...pilgrims came to the new land because England really didn't want them anyway " out of their hair"

Really?

I have a few quotes of my own to site. We'll use Thomas Jefferson, since you brought him up.

"The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man."

"The practice of morality being necessary for the well being of society, He [God] has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral principles of Jesus and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in His discourses."

"I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others."

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."


ALL of these quotes were from Thomas Jefferson. How do you explain him mentioning CHRISTIANITY specifically and/or referring to JESUS, if, as you say, he was a deist.....didn't believe the Bible...and was not a Christian???? Please explain that to me.


Let's throw in another quote that contradicts your view:

Patrick Henry
Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."

[RATFINK]

Great post Skids.

[Clayton_Wetter]

http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/al...rother/#417417

Sad but spot on, on ones part!

[LITE-INN]

and your point is tnie

[skids]

Speaking of Jefferson. Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term "Nature's God" used by deists of the time). With his scientific bent, Jefferson sought to organize his thoughts on religion. He rejected the superstitions and mysticism of Christianity and even went so far as to edit the gospels, removing the miracles and mysticism of Jesus (see The Jefferson Bible) leaving only what he deemed the correct moral philosophy of Jesus.Distortions of history occur in the minds of many Christians whenever they see the word "God" embossed in statue or memorial concrete. For example, those who visit the Jefferson Memorial in Washington will read Jefferson's words engraved: "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man." When they see the word "God" many Christians see this as "proof" of his Christianity without thinking that "God" can have many definitions ranging from nature to supernatural. Yet how many of them realize that this passage aimed at attacking the tyranny of the Christian clergy of Philadelphia, or that Jefferson's God was not the personal god of Christianity? Those memorial words came from a letter written to Benjamin Rush in 1800 in response to Rush's warning about the Philadelphia clergy attacking Jefferson (Jefferson was seen as an infidel by his enemies during his election for President). The complete statement reads as follows:"The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their opinion, & this is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets against me. . ."Jefferson aimed at laissez-faire liberalism in the name of individual freedom, He felt that any form of government control, not only of religion, but of individual mercantilism consisted of tyranny. He thought that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.If anything can clear of the misconceptions of Jeffersonian history, it can come best from the author himself. Although Jefferson had a complex view of religion, too vast for this presentation, the following quotes provide a glimpse of how Thomas Jefferson viewed the corruptions of Christianity and religion.Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782What is it men cannot be made to believe!-Thomas Jefferson to Richard Henry Lee, April 22, 1786. (on the British regarding America, but quoted here for its universal appeal.)Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

All you have proven by the quotes you site is that Jefferson did not want Christianity "pushed" or "forced" on anyone. Neither do most Christians I know. Jefferson wanted to promote the faith he had, but did not see it as right to dictate to others a certain religion (I.e. freedom of religion).

Regarding the choice of some governments to regulate religion and thought, Jefferson stated:
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

Deriving from this statement, Jefferson believed that the Government's relationship with the Church should be indifferent, religion being neither persecuted nor given any special status.


How you can read the quotes in my previous post where he specifically sites Jesus and Christianity, and then say he was not a Christian and did not consider his god the God of the Bible is ridiculous to me.

But hey, nothing you say surprises me anymore.

P.s. How about breaking out a paragraph once in awhile?

[skids]

Explain the Jefferson Bible.

I'm growing tired of doing your homework, so I admittedly copied and pasted the following. It is, nevertheless, the explanation you requested.


The So-Called “Jefferson Bible”

According to this allegation, Jefferson made his own Bible (i.e., “The Jefferson Bible”) by removing from the Gospels the miracles and parts with which he disagreed; but there are many problems with this charge.

First, Jefferson was one of the founders of the Virginia Bible Society and contributed liberally to the distribution of the complete, unedited, traditional Bible.

Second, no such work as a “Jefferson Bible” actually exists; it is a widely-used pejorative concocted by modern writers loosely referring to one of two works that Jefferson prepared about the teachings of Jesus (the first in 1804 and the second in 1820). Significantly, Jefferson assigned a specific title to each work accurately describing its scope and purpose; neither was a “Bible.”

For years prior to the 1804 work, Jefferson had taken an active role in promoting Christianity among the Indians. He not only signed numerous federal laws to that end but also carried on a correspondence about the subject with several ministers and government officials, who recommended “a plan by which the blessing of Christianity might be propagated among the heathen.” One friend showed Jefferson a sermon endorsing a plan whereby just the simple teachings of Jesus (i.e., Jesus’ own words) were presented to Indians, avoiding the many controversial doctrines over which groups of Christians so often fought. Jefferson took two Bibles that he had in the White House, cut the words of Jesus from those Bibles, and pasted them into a separate folio, arranging them so that Indians could read the teachings of Jesus in a non-stop, end-to-end fashion.

Jefferson titled that work “The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, being Extracted from the Account of His Life and Doctrines given by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; Being an Abridgement of the New Testament for the Use of the Indians, Unembarrassed [Uncomplicated] with Matters of Fact or Faith beyond the Level of their Comprehensions.” This work is the so-called “Jefferson Bible,” and significantly, it did include miracles, such as Jesus’ command to His disciples to heal the sick and raise the dead, the account of the resurrection of Jarius’ daughter, the healing of the bleeding woman, the healing of two blind men, the casting out of a demon, and other acts of a miraculous and supernatural nature.

Jefferson’s second religious work was undertaken more than a decade later. Titled “The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth,” Jefferson took the moral teachings of Jesus and arranged them end-to-end in four side-by-side columns – one column in English, Latin, French, and Greek.

Jefferson described that work to his friend, the Rev. Charles Clay:

Probably you have heard me say I had taken the four Evangelists, had cut out from them every text they had recorded of the moral precepts of Jesus, and arranged them in a certain order; and although they appeared but as fragments, yet fragments of the most sublime edifice of morality which had ever been exhibited to man. (emphasis added)

Because the purpose of the 1820 work was to compile the morals of Jesus from his teachings, that work did not contain miracles. As confirmed by Jefferson scholar, Dr. Mark Beliles:

Because of Jefferson’s intention to compile primarily what Jesus taught rather than what he did, many of the miracles and other events included in the Gospels concerning Jesus were naturally deleted.

Today, some claim that the 1820 work (rather than the 1804 work) is the “Jefferson Bible,” but that 1820 work was not for public use and Jefferson would never have allowed it to have been described as a “Bible”; it was merely a personal devotional aid for his own use. Jefferson’s eldest grandson noted that his grandfather “was in the habit of reading nightly from it before going to bed.”

How did either of Jefferson’s simple works on the words of Jesus come to be characterized by modern writers as a supposedly anti-Christian “Jefferson Bible”? A contemporary researcher has accurately reported:

Unfortunately, all those who have published the “Jefferson Bible” since 1903 have been almost universally either Unitarian or rationalist and secular in their approach, and their introductions to the book have. . . . misrepresented Jefferson’s motivations and beliefs to conform to their own theological assumptions or agendas.

[buster83]

Jefferson would also not have like the way the corrupt banking system is.

[skids]

Despite the stated intent of the 1804 version being "for the Use of the Indians," there is no record of this or its successor being used for that purpose. Although the government long supported Christian activity among Indians,[24][25] and in Notes on the State of Virginia Jefferson supported "a perpetual mission among the Indian tribes," at least in the interest of anthropology,[26] and as President sanctioned financial support for a priest and church for the Kaskaskia Indians, [27] Jefferson did not make these works public. Instead, he acknowledged "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth" existence only to a few friends, saying that he read it before retiring at night, as he found this project intensely personal and private.[28]It is understood by some historians that he composed it for his own satisfaction, supporting the Christian faith as he saw it. Gaustad states, "The retired president did not produce his small book to shock or offend a somnolent world; he composed it for himself, for his devotion, for his assurance, for a more restful sleep at nights and a more confident greeting of the mornings." [29]Ainsworth Rand Spofford, Librarian of Congress (1864 –1894) stated:"His original idea was to have the life and teachings of the Saviour, told in similar excerpts, prepared for the Indians, thinking this simple form would suit them best. But, abandoning this, the formal execution of his plan took the shape above described, which was for his individual use. He used the four languages that he might have the texts in them side by side, convenient for comparison. In the book he pasted a map of the ancient world and the Holy Land, with which he studied the New Testament." [30]Some speculate that the reference to "Indians" in the 1804 title may have been an allusion to Jefferson's Federalist opponents, as he likewise used this indirect tactic against them at least once before, that being in his second inaugural address. Or that he was providing himself a cover story in case this work became public.[31]Also referring to the 1804 version, Jefferson wrote, "A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."[32]Jefferson's claim to be a Christian was made in response to those who accused him of being otherwise, due to his unorthodox view of the Bible and conception of Christ. Recognizing his rather unique views, Jefferson stated in a letter (1819) to Ezra Stiles Ely, "You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know."[33]

Again, no paragraphs? You do nothing for your argument when what you post cannot be deciphered because it rambles endlessly. Is there a specific point you wish to make? Could YOU make it? At least my copy and paste is understandable, is fairly succinct, and has a point. I cannot seem to decipher yours, if there is one. It gives me a headache to attempt to read it. What little I was able to catch, made my point, more so than yours. He was a Christian, regardless of how/why the "Jefferson Bible" came about.

I gave you the explanation for what you deem the "Jefferson Bible" (of which, no book has ever been named by the author). Whether or not you choose to accept it, is irrelevant to me.

[LITE-INN]

busheetreats bores the he11 out of me

[RATFINK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TdhwWFFydxk

[buster83]

dude god is not going to help you when a criminal is in front of you with a 10mm and if you do not have one to help yourself goodbye.

[Highside Hustler25]

busheetreats bores the he11 out of me

No chit. Copy/paste....copy/paste...

If he ever had a thought of his own emerge from his pea size brain, all of 4m would be in a uproar.

[buster83]

an Atheist needs all the help they can get.

[Highside Hustler25]

Sorry, I must not waste much time talking to idiots today, I've got to wrap up a contract today that's going to net more than you guys collectively make in 5 years. Sucks to suck boys.

I assume your contract consists of nothing but ...copy/paste...copy/paste

Look it up, I'm tired of doing your homework for you.

And no one asked you to. It would only consist of a bunch of copy/paste...copy/paste...material anyway.