Walmart And Costco

[Bubstr]

I am curious as to your reaction/rebuttal to the points made in this link.

http://www.rightwingnews.com/john-hawkins/5-reasons-unions-are-bad-for-america/

I am also curious if you would agree that unions, more often than not, create "rules" that impose inefficiencies on the company?

How do you feel about certain jobs needing to pay "union wage" even if they are not union? Why should a contractor not be allowed to under bid a union company, if he feels he can do it?

First off, unions are not the greatest thing since sliced bread, but they are kinda like Bobby Knight was to Indiana basketball fans. He was an A$$, but he was their A$$. They are the last line of defense between you and Sweat shops, child labor, and an ever reduction in pay, unless you know of somebody else that lobbies for these things.I always said everyone but me needs a union. The fact is, most places that have a union presents, invited them. They invited them by not treating their employees well. Wonder bread is exactly one of these companies that invited the unions in. Poor management caused this company to change hands something like 5 times. They changed the owners name more than ZaZaGabor changed her last name. Most of them from take overs that resulted in gutting the company over and over. The wonder bread union had the same benefits and pay as their non union competitors. That company went under because it was sold off one profitable piece at a time and wondered why it filed bankruptcy 3 times.

Sure unions do get rules that hamper profit. Rules like working 7 days a week with out over time. Rules like safe working conditions. Rules like how much time a driver can be on the road each day, even though there are federal regulations for over the road drivers. Rules that keep a guys job if he gets hurt at work, even if it's a long rehab. Rules that provide insurance, just like the employers that appreciate their employees. Sure you get people that take advantage of these rules, but it isn't the majority. The same as all companies don't take advantage of their employees and invite that union in. When you have a union presents you do have an adversarial environment, but that is because there was no help for the employees before the union came. The company just did what ever it wanted. Some places deserve unions, some don't. The ones that don't and get one, it usually doesn't effect them much.

Your link, the first paragraph says pretty much all you need to know.

(At one time in this country, there were few workplace safety laws, few restraints on employers, and incredibly exploitive working conditions that ranged from slavery, to share cropping, to putting children in dangerous working conditions. Unions, to their everlasting credit, helped play an important role in leveling the playing field for workers.) quote

The laws have changed and are constantly changing. Do you know who has influence to change laws? Lobbyists with money. Do you have one of these, besides the Unions? This is like every thing in this world. If you don't keep watch and defend what is yours, you will lose it. As you can already see, as union presents has declined, wages have declined even reaching into the upper middle class, but profits are keeping up. You will also see there are more salried employees that work 60 to 80 hours a week with no overtime pay. You will also see more wives working to make ends meet. You will also see educational demands by the employer that are not reimbursed. It used to be if they wanted a college degree they compensated the employee for it. Now they don't pay enough to pay the student loans.

If your looking at this with the idea that you can't afford union labor rates if you want to compete with the large companies, you may not be able to. We maybe should have had more union lobbyists to stop them from getting cheaper labor than you can and hide profits, never to be taxed, overseas. This leaves you with their share of the tax bill also.

But just keep standing up for an ideology that is not in your best interests. Some day you will have the slave labor employee and make absolutely nothing, because there is no consumer. You will be that slave labor.

[LITE-INN]

with high unemployment you have lower wages and right now high inflation some job s the the rate of never goes up or in fact has gone down because of too much competition

[Bubstr]

wonder bread hows that working for you and the unions and if north dakota has the jobs I go there

You going there even if they are union jobs? Oil and oil pipeline work is almost all union I believe.

Wonder bread was inept. They had one or two bankruptcy take overs before they ever had a union. When they finally went under, it was a planned event. They took it over to part it out. The union could have given them anything they wanted and it would still be parted out. They borrowed everything they could to pay CEO compensations for a failing company and waked away. Even the stock holders got screwed.

[LITE-INN]

wonder was bought by flowers breads in ga some uissues right now but nothing it can't handle and no union, and thre is more than oil jobs in North dakota we would have more jobs if oil exploration was a top priority but we can't go thereit would be political

[Bubstr]

with high unemployment you have lower wages and right now high inflation some job s the the rate of never goes up or in fact has gone down because of too much competition

Ok finish that thought. High unemployment lower wages, is cheap labor. Who lobbied for cheap labor, more immigration and foreign trade deals? It darn sure wasn't the unions. Who is that competition? Chinese labor, Indian Labor, Mexican labor and South American labor. Did the Unions lobby for that too? These corporations that divert profits out of the country, leaving us with the bill for this cheap labor in taxes, Did the Union lobby for that too?

Now they are saying we need the brightest of these foreign immigrants. Looks like the upper middle class is the next target. Do you suppose the Union is going to lobby for that too?

[LITE-INN]

no no no competition with in the industry not all competion is is from abroad but mean cost are going up and up

[LITE-INN]

Irving, TX – November 21, 2012 – Hostess Brands Inc. announced that the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York today approved its emergency interim motion for the orderly wind down of its business and sale of its assets.

Judge Robert Drain approved the motion after the Company and the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco and Grain Millers Union (BCTGM) were unable to reach an agreement during an 11th-hour mediation yesterday.

Hostess Brands is winding down the Company after a nationwide strike initiated by the BCTGM that commenced on November 9th crippled its operations at a time when the Company lacked the financial resources to survive a significant labor action.

Among other provisions, the Court order allows Hostess Brands to return excess ingredients and packaging; provides liquidity through an amended debtor-in-possession financing agreement and consensual use of cash collateral; and authorizes the Company to implement a non-executive employee retention plan to ensure the Company has the necessary personnel to implement the wind down.

Hostess Brands said it intends to retain approximately 3,200 employees to assist with the initial phase of the wind down. Employee headcount is expected to decrease by 94% within the first 16 weeks of the wind down. The entire process is expected to be completed in one year.

The wind down was necessitated by an inflated cost structure that put the Company at a profound competitive disadvantage. The biggest component of the Company’s costs was its collective bargaining agreements that covered 15,000 of 18,500 employees.

Hostess Brands worked tirelessly to complete a reorganization of its business as a going concern, including spending the better part of 18 months negotiating with its key constituents to obtain a consensual agreement to lower costs to a sustainable level. The Company had obtained the support of its largest union, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, and its lenders. However, the BCTGM leadership chose not to negotiate a new labor contract and instead, when presented with a final offer, launched a campaign to cripple the Company’s operations and force it to liquidate.

The wind down means the closure of 33 bakeries, 565 distribution centers, approximately 5,500 delivery routes, 570 bakery outlet stores and the loss of 18,500 jobs.

Prospective bidders for the Company’s assets should contact the following representatives.

Brands: Perella Weinberg at hostess@pwpartners.com

Assets: FTI Consulting at hostess@fticonsulting.com

For employees whose jobs will be immediately eliminated, additional information can be found at www.hostessbrands.info. The website also contains a copy of the Company’s wind down motion and information for customers and vendors.

About Hostess Brands

Founded in 1930 and based in Irving, Texas, Hostess Brands’ products have included iconic brands such as Hostess®, Wonder®, Nature's Pride®, Dolly Madison®, Drake's®, Butternut®, Home Pride® and Merita®. Hostess Brands has approximately 18,500 employees and operates 33 bakeries, 553 distribution centers, approximately 5,500 delivery routes and 527 bakery outlet stores throughout the United States.

###

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

HOSTESS BRANDS STATEMENT ON MEDIATION WITH BAKERS UNION

Irving, TX – November 20, 2012 - Hostess Brands Inc. announced today that a mediation today with the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco and Grain Millers Union was unsuccessful. The Company will have no further comment until a hearing scheduled for tomorrow at 11 a.m., EST, before the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

HOSTESS BRANDS TO ENTER MEDIATION WITH BAKERS UNION

Irving, TX – November 19, 2012 – Hostess Brands Inc. announced today that it will follow a request from the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York to enter a confidential mediation on Tuesday with the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco and Grain Millers Union (BCTGM).

Today’s hearing to consider Hostess Brands’ motion to wind down the Company and sell all of its assets has been adjourned until 11 a.m., EST, on Wednesday.

Production remains shut down.

About Hostess Brands

Founded in 1930 and based in Irving, Texas, Hostess Brands’ products have included iconic brands such as Hostess®, Wonder®, Nature's Pride®, Dolly Madison®, Drake's®, Butternut®, Home Pride® and Merita®. Hostess Brands has approximately 18,500 employees and operates 33 bakeries, 553 distribution centers, approximately 5,500 delivery routes and 527 bakery outlet stores throughout the United States.

###

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

HOSTESS BRANDS TO WIND DOWN COMPANY AFTER BCTGM UNION STRIKE CRIPPLES OPERATIONS

Irving, TX – November 16, 2012 – Hostess Brands Inc. today announced that it is winding down operations and has filed a motion with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court seeking permission to close its business and sell its assets, including its iconic brands and facilities. Bakery operations have been suspended at all plants. Delivery of products will continue and Hostess Brands retail stores will remain open for several days in order to sell already-baked products.

The Board of Directors authorized the wind down of Hostess Brands to preserve and maximize the value of the estate after one of the Company’s largest unions, the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union (BCTGM), initiated a nationwide strike that crippled the Company’s ability to produce and deliver products at multiple facilities.

On Nov. 12, Hostess Brands permanently closed three plants as a result of the work stoppage. On Nov. 14, the Company announced it would be forced to liquidate if sufficient employees did not return to work to restore normal operations by 5 p.m., EST p.m., Nov. 15. The Company determined on the night of Nov. 15 that an insufficient number of employees had returned to work to enable the restoration of normal operations.

The BCTGM in September rejected a last, best and final offer from Hostess Brands designed to lower costs so that the Company could attract new financing and emerge from Chapter 11. Hostess Brands then received Court authority on Oct. 3 to unilaterally impose changes to the BCTGM’s collective bargaining agreements.

Hostess Brands is unprofitable under its current cost structure, much of which is determined by union wages and pension costs. The offer to the BCTGM included wage, benefit and work rule concessions but also gave Hostess Brands’ 12 unions a 25 percent ownership stake in the company, representation on its Board of Directors and $100 million in reorganized Hostess Brands’ debt.

“We deeply regret the necessity of today’s decision, but we do not have the financial resources to weather an extended nationwide strike,” said Gregory F. Rayburn, chief executive officer. “Hostess Brands will move promptly to lay off most of its 18,500-member workforce and focus on selling its assets to the highest bidders.”

In addition to dozens of baking and distribution facilities around the country, Hostess Brands will sell its popular brands, including Hostess®, Drakes® and Dolly Madison®, which make iconic cake products such as Twinkies®, CupCakes, Ding Dongs®, Ho Ho’s®, Sno Balls® and Donettes®. Bread brands to be sold include Wonder®, Nature’s Pride ®, Merita®, Home Pride®, Butternut®, and Beefsteak®, among others.

The wind down means the closure of 33 bakeries, 565 distribution centers, approximately 5,500 delivery routes and 570 bakery outlet stores throughout the United States.

The Company said its debtor-in-possession lenders have agreed to allow the Company to continue to have access to the $75 million financing facility put in place at the start of the bankruptcy cases to fund the sale and wind down process, subject to U.S. Bankruptcy Court approval.

The Company’s motion asks the Court for authority to continue to pay employees whose services are required during the wind-down period.

For employees whose jobs will be eliminated, additional information can be found at hostessbrands.info . The website also contains information for customers and vendors. Most employees who lose their jobs should be eligible for government-provided unemployment benefits.

###

[Clayton_Wetter]

And speaking of UNION fat cats!!!

http://nlpc.org/union-corruption-update

[Clayton_Wetter]

Union Free America

This web site is dedicated to the vast majority of American workers who have chosen to deal directly with their employers rather than through a union. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics in 2011 only 11.8% of all employees were union members and on private payrolls it was just 6.9%.

This is not a "love your boss, he can do no wrong" web site. Whether you like your employer or not isn't the point.

Most American workers don't want to be union members, but they are playing against a stacked deck. It is stacked even worse if they are stuck with a union and want to get rid of it.

The purpose of this site is to provide information and encouragement to employees who want to stay or become Union Free.

Legislative Alert: Congress is considering a bill to deny employees a secret ballot vote on union representation. This bill is perversely named the "Employee Free Choice Act."

Why I Don't Want A Union - The top ten reasons not to be union. If you don't like the choices, enter the contest.

Union Membership In America - Here's the latest information about the decline in union membership.

Where can I get information about union finances? Find out about union finances by checking the reports unions file with the U.S. Department of Labor.

Where can I get information about union political contributions?

Do unions spend dues dollars on politics? Does a fish swim?

Unions and ACORN - Labor union support for a radical leftist organization.

Where can I get information about union corruption?

Staying Union Free - The union organizer is at the door.

Decertifying a Union - Regaining your freedom.

Rules for Radicals - The Rules of Power Tactics from Saul Alinsky's book

2010 Most Decertified Union Award - Teamsters win again

Neutrality Agreements and Card Checks - Union desperation and employer cowardice an injustice to employees.

Auto Industry - Union Ain't Wanted

Killing Jobs - Labor Unions Are Dying! Are They Killing Our Jobs, Too?

Sinking Ship - Would you book a cruise on a sinking ship?

Public Employees - Union Issues In Public Employment Are Different

Healthcare Providers - Healthcare Employees Are In The Union Organizers' Crosshairs

Construction workers - the Hard Hat Corner

Hard Hat Stickers - American Flag "America Works Best Union Free"

No Holds Barred - Fake study funded by unions says employers oppose unions

Visit the online store - Bumper Stickers, Buttons and T-shirts for Union Free Workers

Quotes - Please share interesting quotations with us

Support Union Free America - Donate To Union Free America

Contact us - We want to hear from you

http://www.unionfreeamerica.com/index.htm

[LITE-INN]

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2...art-163338.htm he has night its non union

[LITE-INN]

Before I start, understand I was a union member for a little over the first 10 years of my working life. I firmly believe that unions are only as good as the INTEGRITY of the members and their leadership. They have to know their limits, this allows co-existence. One of my first jobs after high school (1963) was with the Kroger Co. as a cashier/stock boy. I belonged to the retail clerks union Local 590 (for about 3 years) and at that time the retail grocery business was one of the better paying jobs (well over minimum wage–3.20/hr, while minimum wage was 1.00/hr). With that our truck drivers belonged to Teamsters Local 249 (Allegheny county in Pittsburgh) and their demands got so outrageous that the company moved its warehouse from Pittsburgh to Ohio in the late 1960′s. With this move they also closed about 30% of their stores in the Pittsburgh market and I got laid off. Soon to follow Krogers would be many other MAJOR EMPLOYERS. To name a few—- Thorofare, A&P, Armour Meats along with all meat packing plants in Pittsburgh, also fleeing Pittsburgh were all the main Freight companies (nearly every major trucking company under the jurisdiction of Local 249 fled to another county or another state).

Another industry dismantled by the union was the dairy industry in Pittsburgh Local 205 (that was the second union I belonged to–7 1/2 years). All the milk companies and all the baking companies, Tip Top, Ward, Schwebels, Nickels, Wonder, Braun, Liberty (I can’t remember the rest). This total dismantling of Pittsburgh’s trucking force took 7–10 years and the cost of 1000′s and 1000′s of good paying jobs as well as all the related jobs that fell due to the moves and closures.

At the same time this was unfolding the steel industry unions were also getting GREEDY and the BREAKING POINT would be a 13 week paid vacation every 5 years. Knowing that this benefit was going to be part of the contract steel companies stalled negotiations while setting up steel plants overseas and signed the new contract. Shortly thereafter USS announced it would be closing down about 80-90% of its operations across America and moving overseas (Pittsburgh taking a another MAJOR hit)…another case of 100′s and 100′s of thousands of jobs and the destruction of economies in cities all over America.

While the legacy costs of UAW contracts cause the price of UAW produced autos to be more than their foreign competitors America is now under siege with the LEGACY COSTS for government employees as well as teachers. Remember now—–back in the 60′s union membership was 20% + and now it is between 10-12%, and thru the last 50 year cycle the POWER and DEMANDS of unions first caused companies to relocate by county or state (where the unions were more friendly–not as demanding). Later they caused companies to relocate overseas (where there are NO unions). And now the union legacy costs tied with government employees and teachers without a doubt WILL BANKRUPT AMERICA !!!

This blog is not to be misunderstood as anti-union, but an eye opening comment as to what has happened, and is now happening as you read this little story. This is REALITY. As I did, take a few moments and think back to any and all BIG BUSINESSES that you grew up with, if they are gone (in most cases they are) ask yourself why and draw your own conclusions. While unions are good for workers, they MUST realize where they ultimately will hurt those they represent and act accordingly (this is for the benefit of all). JUST THINK ABOUT IT. For all those that think unions are declining because of the fall of percentages from 20%+ down to 12%, think again. The 12% is based on a much larger population that when their numbers were 20%, plus their dues are much higher. So if anything they are much stronger and that is why they never defend their lower percentage. SMART LIKE A FOX. Can’t we all just get along ?


Bill Balsamico the author

[Bubstr]

Lite, Hostess was a national brand. google history, you will find this isn't their first rodeo. It's been a while since I read it, but I believe the first or maybe second take over was Continental Bakeries. It didn't make any difference what the union would have agreed to the place was gutted and toast long before this link came about. It came about because of a long line of inept management. since you don't know much about Wonder bread, would you like to tell me about Sarra Lee? At Sarra Lee, the unions gave all the concessions asked for and is still borrowing against holdings and selling off parts. It will go down also. Why they are going down is, they can't compete with Walmart and are not diversified enough to survive. Now, you or you and your employer have to rely on the minimum wage worker at Walmart instead of the well paid worker at these Bakeries for your livelihood. That wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so wide spread. Know your consumer. The first rule of business. You and your boss are in business together, no matter what job you have, like it or not.

[LITE-INN]

Lite, Hostess was a national brand. google history, you will find this isn't their first rodeo. It's been a while since I read it, but I believe the first or maybe second take over was Continental Bakeries. It didn't make any difference what the union would have agreed to the place was gutted and toast long before this link came about. It came about because of a long line of inept management. since you don't know much about Wonder bread, would you like to tell me about Sarra Lee? At Sarra Lee, the unions gave all the concessions asked for and is still borrowing against holdings and selling off parts. It will go down also. Why they are going down is, they can't compete with Walmart and are not diversified enough to survive. Now, you or you and your employer have to rely on the minimum wage worker at Walmart instead of the well paid worker at these Bakeries for your livelihood. That wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so wide spread. Know your consumer. The first rule of business. You and your boss are in business together, no matter what job you have, like it or not.

how in he11 do you bring walmart in the downfall of a bakery the bakery would a supllier to walmart and those jobs are not min wage they are right about market value not all jobs willpay 15 ,17 18 bucks in hour it doesn't work that way

[skids]

Sure unions do get rules that hamper profit. Rules like working 7 days a week with out over time.

Don't you think salaried people realize they will not get OT pay when they sign on? As for seven days a week, show me.

Rules like safe working conditions.

With work comp, it behooves an employer to have safe working conditions. A lot cheaper than work comp claims.

Rules like how much time a driver can be on the road each day, even though there are federal regulations for over the road drivers.

NO company is exempt from the federal driving hours laws. No way can an employer force an employee to break them.

Rules that keep a guys job if he gets hurt at work, even if it's a long rehab.

Was he hurt on the job? If so, fine. If he gets hurt OFF the job, and will be off for 6 months why should the employer be forced to keep a job for him??????

Since you are being sarcastic and seemingly don't have an issue with union rules. Let's address a Wonder Bread union example. The union had a rule that bread products and snack products could NOT be shipped to the SAME store on the SAME truck. Why??? I want to hear you defend this union rule.

[Bubstr]

Before I start, understand I was a union member for a little over the first 10 years of my working life. I firmly believe that unions are only as good as the INTEGRITY of the members and their leadership. They have to know their limits, this allows co-existence. One of my first jobs after high school (1963) was with the Kroger Co. as a cashier/stock boy. I belonged to the retail clerks union Local 590 (for about 3 years) and at that time the retail grocery business was one of the better paying jobs (well over minimum wage–3.20/hr, while minimum wage was 1.00/hr). With that our truck drivers belonged to Teamsters Local 249 (Allegheny county in Pittsburgh) and their demands got so outrageous that the company moved its warehouse from Pittsburgh to Ohio in the late 1960′s. With this move they also closed about 30% of their stores in the Pittsburgh market and I got laid off. Soon to follow Krogers would be many other MAJOR EMPLOYERS. To name a few—- Thorofare, A&P, Armour Meats along with all meat packing plants in Pittsburgh, also fleeing Pittsburgh were all the main Freight companies (nearly every major trucking company under the jurisdiction of Local 249 fled to another county or another state).

Another industry dismantled by the union was the dairy industry in Pittsburgh Local 205 (that was the second union I belonged to–7 1/2 years). All the milk companies and all the baking companies, Tip Top, Ward, Schwebels, Nickels, Wonder, Braun, Liberty (I can’t remember the rest). This total dismantling of Pittsburgh’s trucking force took 7–10 years and the cost of 1000′s and 1000′s of good paying jobs as well as all the related jobs that fell due to the moves and closures.

At the same time this was unfolding the steel industry unions were also getting GREEDY and the BREAKING POINT would be a 13 week paid vacation every 5 years. Knowing that this benefit was going to be part of the contract steel companies stalled negotiations while setting up steel plants overseas and signed the new contract. Shortly thereafter USS announced it would be closing down about 80-90% of its operations across America and moving overseas (Pittsburgh taking a another MAJOR hit)…another case of 100′s and 100′s of thousands of jobs and the destruction of economies in cities all over America.

While the legacy costs of UAW contracts cause the price of UAW produced autos to be more than their foreign competitors America is now under siege with the LEGACY COSTS for government employees as well as teachers. Remember now—–back in the 60′s union membership was 20% + and now it is between 10-12%, and thru the last 50 year cycle the POWER and DEMANDS of unions first caused companies to relocate by county or state (where the unions were more friendly–not as demanding). Later they caused companies to relocate overseas (where there are NO unions). And now the union legacy costs tied with government employees and teachers without a doubt WILL BANKRUPT AMERICA !!!

This blog is not to be misunderstood as anti-union, but an eye opening comment as to what has happened, and is now happening as you read this little story. This is REALITY. As I did, take a few moments and think back to any and all BIG BUSINESSES that you grew up with, if they are gone (in most cases they are) ask yourself why and draw your own conclusions. While unions are good for workers, they MUST realize where they ultimately will hurt those they represent and act accordingly (this is for the benefit of all). JUST THINK ABOUT IT. For all those that think unions are declining because of the fall of percentages from 20%+ down to 12%, think again. The 12% is based on a much larger population that when their numbers were 20%, plus their dues are much higher. So if anything they are much stronger and that is why they never defend their lower percentage. SMART LIKE A FOX. Can’t we all just get along ?


Bill Balsamico the author

I don't know enough about most of those industries to comment on them. But I do know a little about the Steel mills as I have a friend that owns one. Making steel is not his business. He does heavy construction. He came to own the steel mill when he was looking for an advantage to competitively bid big jobs. He rushed into the deal as it was about to be leveled. He bought it for a song and figured with all the out of work people in the area, he could make his own steel cheaper than importing it from China. Wrong. You can ship Iron ore there, make steel and ship it back, cheaper than you can do it here, with minimum wage labor. He uses that place to warehouse his heavy equipment. Now you tell me if a steel mill could survive union labor or not. Do you think the Union lobbied for the trade laws that made this possible.

As far as blaming the whole federal debt on the unions, it is too ridiculous for even you to believe.