Tiregate lawsuit?

[Cardirt0]

Top 3 in all races that wknd not just 3 total

End of race top 3 thats IT.....I do not know if they do for heats or not May just be the winner...Or the ones that transfer

[Pop t]

I do not it is fair to the Dirt Fans; who for lots have to make plans 1 year in advance for camping-hotels and tickets for the (BIG ELDORA with out 5 drivers -100). Or are they just trying to make sure someone else wins?????If I could get my money back; I would not attend. There should be some other way to punish the teams ( if guilty) without baring them from one of the most Fan Attended races of the year (come on!)I thought whatt they did at the N S 100 this year was a good start to fixing this tire issue. Takes a little time, but during driver introductions and also keeps nosie level down for the intro part.

[00Hdmn]

I have read no ones posts, an I'm not going to, just give my two cents and move on.

Do I think Bloomer's from the scales has merit? If they weren't certified, and tested out of calibration, yes. Said it from the start, no matter who it was. Really, it's common sense, you pay by the scales, so be certain they are accurate and certified by the state. It's all about covering your a$$. That way you can tell Bloomer and anyone else, to pi$$ off. Instead, this, because they went old school, it's in the rule book. Which means nothing, like I said, to the state and the courts. Does it mean Scott will win the suit, no. If Eldora can prove their scales were accurate, still his loss.

On the tires, transparency is certainly needed. Tires didn't meet the benchmark, ok, what was wrong. Like, I committed a crime, but we don't wanna tell you what it was, you just did. Didn't say they added juice, or from an official standpoint, took something away. I heard from multiple places, that something was missing, but it wasn't official. And that lab better be up to snuff and have their equipment certified and their workers certified. So they all have merit on that one.

Do I think this is good for the sport, absolutely not. I don't believe in the doom and gloom that's on DoD, but it's not good. But, quit doing things like ya did 10-20 years ago. All employers, organizations, have started to learn to cover their a$$. My company certainly does that. So these race tracks and series better get into the 21st century and cover their a$$. Go over everything with real good lawyers, and have it all written out explicitly. Then you can take it all into court and tell Bloomer, and the rest, to suck it. Instead, I think this is going to be real messy.

And people are going to go one way or the other because of Bloomer. You can't look at it that way. You gotta see race car x and driver x, and go from there. Not going to happen on here, but in the court of law, it better. Because on here, people cannot be unbiased. No matter who was involved, I think they have merit. Just my opinion.

Some people do have sense on 4m, that was the best post I have seen on this topic. Great post and I agree 100%

[Cardirt0]

Yes I'm trying to defend a system because that is the way its been done because their is no different way to do it without associated costs that are well in excess of the budget of smaller tracks and tours. Its not about being lazy, if I (we) were lazy then we wouldn't be running a series at all. Its a hell of a lot easier to just show up at the track on Saturday with your cooler and watch racing with no other responsibilities, etc.

The sport hasn't evolved as you seem to think it has. The profit margins have become smaller over past 20 years, so how can tracks/series/sanctions be expected to incur even more costs? What you are asking for is for people to run races at a significant loss while spending countless hours to do it. Not every track is Fairbury (you being from the Carolina's should know full well how badly tracks can struggle, as most of the tracks there are not in the best shape) and making tons of money. A lot do it just for the love of the sport, something I wish these 5 drivers had.

Once More the $ has come back too F==K it all up... People just love too Make it hard too do...Fairbury and FarmerCity is run by fans and they Love racing.. But the Buck ($) thing is hurting one of them...Once they get in a Hole its hard too get back out of it...

[20fan]

As Earl used to say and advertise, "ELDORA RULES PREVAIL"

[Cardirt0]

As Earl used to say and advertise, "ELDORA RULES PREVAIL"

And He dont run it no more, and the Law in in on it know...

[Barbecueboy]

The definition of a fair shake being?

As I said, my definition is everyone gets weighed by the same scales, and gets their tires tested at the same lab, etc. etc. We (grassroots, small town racing) do not have the money available to us to go way above and beyond what we do now. We can't go out and buy new scales (and everyone forgets that as these scales move around from track to track they would need to be certified once set up at each location so now you are talking about something that is outright impossible), we can't send tire samples to three or four places, etc.

There is a tour that I think you would like, all of the stuff you seem to want out of dirt racing is there. Lots of money, lawyers, scales that are certified right down to ounces, etc. I think its called NASCAR or something like that.

My definition of a fair shake?????

Oh , I don't know........I guess my first inclination would be to say that if you are going to accuse me of cheating or being under weight that you have the systems in place to prove it without a shadow of a doubt, or at the very least be able to prove that the mechanisms that you have in place are accurate and inspected to see that they are reading properly.........it's not that much to ask, especially when the scales are part of the systems that you use to determine being legal and getting paid.

I read your posts and it appears that you are saying that everybody has to go across the same set of scales even if they are wrong or not..............so why worry?

Just to be clear, is that what you are trying to say?

For commercial applications , When scales get moved, they normally get recertified or checked to ensure compliance......

Nobody asking you to send tires to 3 or 4 places.......just be transparent ,have a good collection system in place and send them to a reputable facility that also has good systems in place, and then tell them what caused the tire to fail.

And it's not that hard to get scales certified by the weights and measures ( or whatever each state calls the agency).......you call them, they come out and certify them.

I just called my state and said that I had some agricultural scales that needed certified for weighing grain trucks, what was the process in getting them to come out?

3 to 5 days notice..... A location......scale type and last known certification date......charge, zero.

[Barbecueboy]

Yes I'm trying to defend a system because that is the way its been done because their is no different way to do it without associated costs that are well in excess of the budget of smaller tracks and tours. Its not about being lazy, if I (we) were lazy then we wouldn't be running a series at all. Its a hell of a lot easier to just show up at the track on Saturday with your cooler and watch racing with no other responsibilities, etc.

The sport hasn't evolved as you seem to think it has. The profit margins have become smaller over past 20 years, so how can tracks/series/sanctions be expected to incur even more costs? What you are asking for is for people to run races at a significant loss while spending countless hours to do it. Not every track is Fairbury (you being from the Carolina's should know full well how badly tracks can struggle, as most of the tracks there are not in the best shape) and making tons of money. A lot do it just for the love of the sport, something I wish these 5 drivers had.

When you say there is no other way..........no matter what it is your talking about, there generally hasn't been a whole lot of thought given to finding another way.

There is always another way chief........

And I'm not sure if that was a jab about just showing up with a cooler and having no other responsibilities, but I'm pretty familiar with things and how they work........what's not working though is making a guy out to be a cheater when your really not 100 % sure they actually are.

The nerve of people trying to defend themselves when they know they weren't cheating.....how droll.

[Barbecueboy]

And everybody is forgetting, if wrg and eldora are doing things correctly like you all say , the courts will find in their favor .......so why are all you Alfred e newmans worrying anyway?

[tb1545]

I believe the biggest thing this lawsuit will identify and will have impact on nearly every race track, is...
What is contract labor/contract worker and how does it apply or affect how the rules are implemented?

Once again, I'm going to bring out the Tom Brady suspension example. They didnt need evidence or proof required by the actual U.S. court of law system to suspend him. The players union contract with the NFL stated that burdon of evidence/proof didnt matter and the highest court ruled in NFL's favor. (fyi I hate Tom Brady, but NFL didnt have any facts)

Now if UMP/wrg/eldora can prove their "contract" with the drivers states that they are allowed to suspend or disqualify those drivers according to the rules the drivers agreed to by that contract signature, then whatever is wrong or right in the rulebook according to "actual US law" has no bearing on this matter. The drivers are going to have to prove that either #1 they are NOT contract labor/workers or #2 that contract is Null and void with evidence as to why.

[Barbecueboy]

Yes, what I'm saying is that if a set of scales is reading 20lbs light then it is 20lbs light for all drivers. That is the entire point behind track scales being official. That is why the past 20 year everyone (aside from the 0 car) gets their car weighed when they get the track to determine if and by how much the scales are off and to adjust your weights based on that.

Exactly, so for the series I run I would need to take the Friday each race off and go set up the scales at the track we are running at the next day (which in some cases is a 4hr drive one way) then pay the state to come look my scales and certify them. So the grand total cost is $2000 for this new set of scales, and for each race is a day of work ($250 give or take), $50 in gas, and whatever the fee is for the state (its probably more but lets just say $50). That times 7 races is $2,450, so lets take that add it to the $2000 for the scales and then subtract that amount (4,450) from the my annual salary of $700 and we have -$3,750.00.

As you can see, it isn't financially feasible to run a small tour based around these parameters. Or I could take a much larger share of the money raised rather than pass it on to the drivers (IE I could cut the point fund, but I would have to cut the entire point fund and then some to make up that amount)

Thanks,
Jeff.

Or , you could just make sure your scales are right.

Don't know how many states you run in , but if scales are used in determining commerce, most if not all will happily come out and certify for free given enough notice.

And in case you haven't noticed, you're not talking to just a cooler holding casual fan.

[Barbecueboy]

It wasn't a jab, I am a promoter for 9 races per year (I've helped tracks with two events, and the tour is seven races), I help friends out in the pits 4-5 times and the rest of the 50+ races I attend you can find me in the stands with a cooler drinking beer (if the track allows it) or water/soda (if they don't) and eating the occasional hot dog. I'd be insulting myself if it was a jab. I was just pointing out that by definition anyone involved with race promoting isn't lazy, because it is basically signing up to do more work than you have to.

Thanks,
Jeff.

And to your point, some promoters and series are much better at it than others.........it's like anything else, 20 % of the promoters are putting on 80 % of the great events and series.

The rest are just field fillers.

The Pareto principle holds true in most instances of business......dirt racing is no different.

[Barbecueboy]

We run in two states (MD and PA)

So lets say that is correct and there is no fee. That lowers the negative dollar amount from $3,750 to $3,400. While being $3,400 in the hole is a lot better than $3,750 it is still a lot more than anyone can expect someone to personally incur for providing a service to others.

You say that like there is something wrong with being a casual fan (the driving force behind the entire sport, and the reason why any of it exists)

Thanks,
Jeff.

Nice try Jeff.......I only brought up the casual fan comment because a couple of posts right above this one trying to build them up, you seemed to be labeling them something entirely different.

Maybe I mis understood.

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

End of race top 3 thats IT.....I do not know if they do for heats or not May just be the winner...Or the ones that transfer

Im talking thurs,fri &sat he was the only one light at scales out of everybody that went over scales

[Krooser]

Just to keep things in perspective (and a little history lesson for the younger crowd)...

I raced weekly from '68 until '87... sportsman, late model and IMCA modified. I was in racing promotion from '83 until '88. Never saw a dirt track with a set of scales. Never had to deal with a rulebook with a minimum weight rule.

Ran the IMCA Florida Series with my mod in '87... Volusia, Lake City, Ocala, Gainesville (?) and New Smyrna... never crossed a scale.

During the 70's here in NE Wisconsin we had several dirt tracks with great late model racing... Shawano, Seymour, DePere, Sturgeon Bay, Oshkosh, Outagamie and Luxemburg. The guys could run six days per week.... there were three rules... 11" tire, single four barrel carb and 1966 to current model year. That's it.
But we raced STOCK cars and most weighed in the 3-4K area.

I think these weight rules came to be in the early UMP days.... saw some real lightweight cars during the NDRA days and I would imagine a few bad crashes necessitated a weight rule.

Things were simpler...