Tiregate lawsuit?

[Clayton_Wetter]

One simple solution to the weight issue would be to only weigh the cars prior to the race. As the cars stage for the race, they go across the scales. One crew person per car there with extra weight. If the car is light, you add weight right there with the officials present.
Everyone sees it. No one goes on the track until they pass.

At last. This sounds like a great idea. Then if you wind up light you will suffer the consequences in the race as your car may well wind up being off in it's set up. Maybe 5 five minutes in the pits to add your weight and be reweighed.

And weighed after the race also.

[Cardirt0]

When I was a Kid I go too 15 to 20 WoO Sprint races in ILL. They were great Lots of passing Power slides.. Now theres 2 or 3 races in ILL, Big buck, High end cars, In a long line going fast.. Wake me up when its over....
Now Dirt Late M racing is Dry slick, In line, no Passing most of the time...Something needs too be done ..
Now It cry me a river, You cheat , you cant make wate,, Dope the tires.. Man give me some Rednecks and lets go racing once more....

[fastford]

When I was a Kid I go too 15 to 20 WoO Sprint races in ILL. They were great Lots of passing Power slides.. Now theres 2 or 3 races in ILL, Big buck, High end cars, In a long line going fast.. Wake me up when its over....
Now Dirt Late M racing is Dry slick, In line, no Passing most of the time...Something needs too be done ..
Now It cry me a river, You cheat , you cant make wate,, Dope the tires.. Man give me some Rednecks and lets go racing once more....

im with you cardirtO , man, just read 300 plus post on this BS, i must be turning into a full fledged 4M junkie.....

[Cardirt0]

im with you cardirtO , man, just read 300 plus post on this BS, i must be turning into a full fledged 4M junkie.....

In the old days it was Cool too be a 4M junkie ... not so shire no more LOL

[NormP]

This is a typical, American white-trash-try-to-get-rich-quick lawsuit.

Dirt racing is a white trash sport, take that as a compiment or an insult depending on your viewpoint I guess.

I don't mind to rub elbows with the white trash from time to time, as long as that's at my local tracks or Eldora a couple times a year.

[usac7]

Also, for the series there would be no annual inspection sticker. If we had to maintain our own scales they would need to be inspected on site at each event after the scales were set up. You couldn't just have one inspection for the entire season -- which goes back to my point about it being impossible for most small series'.

Thanks,
Jeff.

Jeff, let me offer a simple scale solution for you. Add to your sanctioning agreement with the track that they provide the scales to be used during the competition, and that the scales be inspected, calibrated, and certified by the local governing body.

You don't have the added expense, and if the track is unwilling to pay the couple hundred bucks per season to insure the officiating tools are accurate, do you really want to be in partnership with them?

my only problems with scales has been when they are not consistent. Once we scaled the car with 15 gal of fuel at the shop and weighed 2324. Got to the track warmed the engine and hot lapped, crossed the scales with 13.5 gal and weighed 2305. Too Close for us, added 5 gal of fuel should have added 30 pounds, crossed the scales after qualifying with 17 gal and weighed 2310. Still too close, added our remaining 10 gal of fuel and bolted on a 30 pound piece of lead. After the feature crossed the scale with 15 gal of fuel and car weighed 2375. Got home, and no change and weighed 2356. On this night the scales showed us from 20 pounds under to 20 pounds over what we expected of them. If a teams expectations can't be reasonably close to what the scale reads each time, how can we be expected to be legal every time.

The scales were not consistent nor were they accurate. When I try to do the right thing, but some machine outside my control calls me wrong when we are not, that is not fair.

Now for the tires. I have heard a couple things that seem minor but could be big in a court of law.
First the tire samples were missing a chemical from the tested compound.
Second someone noted that a few years back, Mike Reece bought a truckload of LM tires. This is significant because his cars usually run the Lucas Oil series so they don't use the UMP LM tires all that often. The drivers could have been using older LM tires. During the appeal process all we heard was the tires did not match the current sample on file at the lab. What about a control sample from a tire manufactured a couple years ago? Have these "Failed" tires been compared with a prior year control sample? Has Hoosier made ANY changes to the formula of chemicals, materials, production process or machines in the past couple years?

This could be as innocent as Hoosier adding a release agent sprayed into the molds that allows them to pull the tire out of the mold at a 20 degree higher temp enabling them to make tires faster than they did a couple years ago. The so called missing chemical could have absolutely nothing to do with the performance of the tire, yet if you were using an old tire, you are illegal.


The one thing that struck me during everyone arguing about the legal process and whether this law suit is good or bad is one thought. No contract, or rule, or even law can be imposed on a person if it interferes with a person's constitutional rights. And the one right a person has that applies in this is the one guaranteeing a person a right to due process. Did UMP/WRG allow the drivers proper and full due process? Another right is the right for a person to face and question their accusers. In the tire case, the control sample their tires were compared against was provided by Hoosier. Have the drivers had ample opportunity to question Hoosier?

[MI Dirt Fan]

Haven't read the last 17 pages of B.S. Should Willie Millikens group have gotten in on this or did they just throw up the white flag and admit guilt?

And I don't believe this is a try to get rich quick white trash scheme.

[HoosierDirtFan]

I have read no ones posts, an I'm not going to, just give my two cents and move on.

Do I think Bloomer's from the scales has merit? If they weren't certified, and tested out of calibration, yes. Said it from the start, no matter who it was. Really, it's common sense, you pay by the scales, so be certain they are accurate and certified by the state. It's all about covering your a$$. That way you can tell Bloomer and anyone else, to pi$$ off. Instead, this, because they went old school, it's in the rule book. Which means nothing, like I said, to the state and the courts. Does it mean Scott will win the suit, no. If Eldora can prove their scales were accurate, still his loss.

On the tires, transparency is certainly needed. Tires didn't meet the benchmark, ok, what was wrong. Like, I committed a crime, but we don't wanna tell you what it was, you just did. Didn't say they added juice, or from an official standpoint, took something away. I heard from multiple places, that something was missing, but it wasn't official. And that lab better be up to snuff and have their equipment certified and their workers certified. So they all have merit on that one.

Do I think this is good for the sport, absolutely not. I don't believe in the doom and gloom that's on DoD, but it's not good. But, quit doing things like ya did 10-20 years ago. All employers, organizations, have started to learn to cover their a$$. My company certainly does that. So these race tracks and series better get into the 21st century and cover their a$$. Go over everything with real good lawyers, and have it all written out explicitly. Then you can take it all into court and tell Bloomer, and the rest, to suck it. Instead, I think this is going to be real messy.

And people are going to go one way or the other because of Bloomer. You can't look at it that way. You gotta see race car x and driver x, and go from there. Not going to happen on here, but in the court of law, it better. Because on here, people cannot be unbiased. No matter who was involved, I think they have merit. Just my opinion.

Best d@mn post on the entire thread period!
-

UMP and WRG are the biggest bunch of crooks in the sport. Most Fans DO NOT realize that, only after Lucas oil came onto the scene has the sport grown. So i hope the lawsuit goes thru, and i hope Driggers and all involved go absolute, flat out, bankrupt and out of the sport for good.

See ya, and good bye, get gone. May be then, the sport can get away from them derelicts.

I completely agree. They are a bunch of crooks who have also ruined the lower class like sportsman, Street stocks, Pure stocks, & 4 cylinders and should have stayed out.
-

Yes, I travel weekly with a 410 sprint car team. I 100% agree with what you are saying, esp the part about being done this way since the beginning of racing. That is the gentleman's look at how it is done and has been forever, unfortunately it is not the laws, and now the law is involved. I would have to say if we won $100,000 at the Kings Royal and came up light, I would ask to see the current State scale sticker, and if there wasn't one or it was expired... the car would not move until it was inspected and verified. I agree if the scale is off, it is off for everyone, but not everyone plays the weight so close to the limit. If they had the weight figured to within 10 lbs, and the scales could be off by over 30, how is that fair to people. "Hey, the rule is 2500, but it could go 50 lbs either way"?

Great point. I think most people would take exception to it if they had that happen to them.

[HoosierDirtFan]

I have read no ones posts, an I'm not going to, just give my two cents and move on.

Do I think Bloomer's from the scales has merit? If they weren't certified, and tested out of calibration, yes. Said it from the start, no matter who it was. Really, it's common sense, you pay by the scales, so be certain they are accurate and certified by the state. It's all about covering your a$$. That way you can tell Bloomer and anyone else, to pi$$ off. Instead, this, because they went old school, it's in the rule book. Which means nothing, like I said, to the state and the courts. Does it mean Scott will win the suit, no. If Eldora can prove their scales were accurate, still his loss.

On the tires, transparency is certainly needed. Tires didn't meet the benchmark, ok, what was wrong. Like, I committed a crime, but we don't wanna tell you what it was, you just did. Didn't say they added juice, or from an official standpoint, took something away. I heard from multiple places, that something was missing, but it wasn't official. And that lab better be up to snuff and have their equipment certified and their workers certified. So they all have merit on that one.

Do I think this is good for the sport, absolutely not. I don't believe in the doom and gloom that's on DoD, but it's not good. But, quit doing things like ya did 10-20 years ago. All employers, organizations, have started to learn to cover their a$$. My company certainly does that. So these race tracks and series better get into the 21st century and cover their a$$. Go over everything with real good lawyers, and have it all written out explicitly. Then you can take it all into court and tell Bloomer, and the rest, to suck it. Instead, I think this is going to be real messy.

And people are going to go one way or the other because of Bloomer. You can't look at it that way. You gotta see race car x and driver x, and go from there. Not going to happen on here, but in the court of law, it better. Because on here, people cannot be unbiased. No matter who was involved, I think they have merit. Just my opinion.

UMP and WRG are the biggest bunch of crooks in the sport. Most Fans DO NOT realize that, only after Lucas oil came onto the scene has the sport grown. So i hope the lawsuit goes thru, and i hope Driggers and all involved go absolute, flat out, bankrupt and out of the sport for good.

See ya, and good bye, get gone. May be then, the sport can get away from them derelicts.

Yes, I travel weekly with a 410 sprint car team. I 100% agree with what you are saying, esp the part about being done this way since the beginning of racing. That is the gentleman's look at how it is done and has been forever, unfortunately it is not the laws, and now the law is involved. I would have to say if we won $100,000 at the Kings Royal and came up light, I would ask to see the current State scale sticker, and if there wasn't one or it was expired... the car would not move until it was inspected and verified. I agree if the scale is off, it is off for everyone, but not everyone plays the weight so close to the limit. If they had the weight figured to within 10 lbs, and the scales could be off by over 30, how is that fair to people. "Hey, the rule is 2500, but it could go 50 lbs either way"?

Jeff, let me offer a simple scale solution for you. Add to your sanctioning agreement with the track that they provide the scales to be used during the competition, and that the scales be inspected, calibrated, and certified by the local governing body.

You don't have the added expense, and if the track is unwilling to pay the couple hundred bucks per season to insure the officiating tools are accurate, do you really want to be in partnership with them?

my only problems with scales has been when they are not consistent. Once we scaled the car with 15 gal of fuel at the shop and weighed 2324. Got to the track warmed the engine and hot lapped, crossed the scales with 13.5 gal and weighed 2305. Too Close for us, added 5 gal of fuel should have added 30 pounds, crossed the scales after qualifying with 17 gal and weighed 2310. Still too close, added our remaining 10 gal of fuel and bolted on a 30 pound piece of lead. After the feature crossed the scale with 15 gal of fuel and car weighed 2375. Got home, and no change and weighed 2356. On this night the scales showed us from 20 pounds under to 20 pounds over what we expected of them. If a teams expectations can't be reasonably close to what the scale reads each time, how can we be expected to be legal every time.

The scales were not consistent nor were they accurate. When I try to do the right thing, but some machine outside my control calls me wrong when we are not, that is not fair.

Now for the tires. I have heard a couple things that seem minor but could be big in a court of law.
First the tire samples were missing a chemical from the tested compound.
Second someone noted that a few years back, Mike Reece bought a truckload of LM tires. This is significant because his cars usually run the Lucas Oil series so they don't use the UMP LM tires all that often. The drivers could have been using older LM tires. During the appeal process all we heard was the tires did not match the current sample on file at the lab. What about a control sample from a tire manufactured a couple years ago? Have these "Failed" tires been compared with a prior year control sample? Has Hoosier made ANY changes to the formula of chemicals, materials, production process or machines in the past couple years?

This could be as innocent as Hoosier adding a release agent sprayed into the molds that allows them to pull the tire out of the mold at a 20 degree higher temp enabling them to make tires faster than they did a couple years ago. The so called missing chemical could have absolutely nothing to do with the performance of the tire, yet if you were using an old tire, you are illegal.


The one thing that struck me during everyone arguing about the legal process and whether this law suit is good or bad is one thought. No contract, or rule, or even law can be imposed on a person if it interferes with a person's constitutional rights. And the one right a person has that applies in this is the one guaranteeing a person a right to due process. Did UMP/WRG allow the drivers proper and full due process? Another right is the right for a person to face and question their accusers. In the tire case, the control sample their tires were compared against was provided by Hoosier. Have the drivers had ample opportunity to question Hoosier?

Nice to see a few people on here with some common sense. This is another great post. Local, City, County, State, & U.S. laws will always TRUMP sporting event laws. The way I see it so far since the Tire Gate scandal happened is his legal due process rights (U.S. LAW) where never granted if he chose to question what happen. It's not that far fetched to understand why he might have brought this to the courts. Some folks like OLD FAN need to understand laws better before they speak.

[klemmabyna]

been an entertaining 17 pages of discussion. credit given for civility and opinions. but...

final result: out of court settlement. no details released.

see: Jason Side v. WoO/WRG

[Highside Hustler25]

Dirt racing is a white trash sport, take that as a compiment or an insult depending on your viewpoint I guess.

I don't mind to rub elbows with the white trash from time to time, as long as that's at my local tracks or Eldora a couple times a year.

Well, I never...

[MI Dirt Fan]

been an entertaining 17 pages of discussion. credit given for civility and opinions. but...

final result: out of court settlement. no details released.

see: Jason Side v. WoO/WRG

Out of court settlements don't clear names and that's one major thing these guys are after.

[HoosierDirtFan]

been an entertaining 17 pages of discussion. credit given for civility and opinions. but...

final result: out of court settlement. no details released.

see: Jason Side v. WoO/WRG

What happen there?

[x5lives]

My two cents on the scales, the track scale is THE standard, the racer needs to set up his car in compliance with the track scale. Everyone knows this, that is why most drivers scale pre-race. as to the racer being paid on weight and scale certification, scales are certified to protect the seller, commodities are sold on weight, doesnt matter if its corn or scrap.

The racer is paid on performance and and on complying with track rules. This is not the first time the 0 car has failed a test at the scale. It is the drivers responsibility to meet these standards. Bloomer took the risk, he paid the price.

[MI Dirt Fan]

What happen there?

http://www.dirttrackdigest.com/DTD/i...ports-lawsuit/