So, SAS-LUCAS-WoO, we're all concerned about $Expensive$ Shock Systems, What about...

[W2Racing09]

What you non racers are missing is a lot of local guys have ran the same cars and engines for years and slowly over the years up graded their equipment. And some
Of these guys are racing the whole year on 5 or 10k total because that's all they have !!! That's the reality for half of the racers out there . One engine failure or major crash and they are done for the year and the next years budget is already blown so they just get out instead !! You guys all think people have 90k a year to race but they quit because it costs 100k. Guys race till they are dead broke and in debt to their balls before they quit !! No money savings is bringing them back. And the cost of starting from scratch is prohibitive and no matter what rules you impose that won't change. They quit when they can't afford a 4k rebuild at the local engine builder and your answer is for them to spend 12 to get a 525 in the car lol lol lol if they don't have 4k they don't have 12 !!! You don't get it people are broke !!!! And guys who have the money get tired of
BS like the pill draw full inverts you guys love . A guy works 40 hours on his car and spends 50 k and has to start last due to invert and junks his car into turn 1. I know you say that's racing but it's because it's not your money !! Racing is a stupid expensive hobby . Nothing is going to make
It a break even proposition like you guys talk about .

Not everyone likes to see the whole field inverted.

I for one enjoy time trials, and if a track were to use time trials to set the top 16 and two consi races for the last 8 spots I would be there every week. Do a redraw of the top four and throw the green.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Brian Gray]

engine are out of control because people keep paying for them. no one said you have to goto an expensive builder to buy a 30,000 dollar motor when you can easily do it yourself for less than a 525.

i do 12 to 16 of them a season. guys do well locally and they get great life. do they make huge numbers? no but their drivable, they last much longer and the rebuild costs are low.

i suggest you learn how to do it yourself. unlike shock technology there are lots of off the shelf ways to build a really good powerplant under 10K

[W2Racing09]

What you non racers are missing is a lot of local guys have ran the same cars and engines for years and slowly over the years up graded their equipment. And some
Of these guys are racing the whole year on 5 or 10k total because that's all they have !!! That's the reality for half of the racers out there . One engine failure or major crash and they are done for the year and the next years budget is already blown so they just get out instead !! You guys all think people have 90k a year to race but they quit because it costs 100k. Guys race till they are dead broke and in debt to their balls before they quit !! No money savings is bringing them back. And the cost of starting from scratch is prohibitive and no matter what rules you impose that won't change. They quit when they can't afford a 4k rebuild at the local engine builder and your answer is for them to spend 12 to get a 525 in the car lol lol lol if they don't have 4k they don't have 12 !!! You don't get it people are broke !!!! And guys who have the money get tired of
BS like the pill draw full inverts you guys love . A guy works 40 hours on his car and spends 50 k and has to start last due to invert and junks his car into turn 1. I know you say that's racing but it's because it's not your money !! Racing is a stupid expensive hobby . Nothing is going to make
It a break even proposition like you guys talk about .

I'm talking about the people that would like to run an SLM but can't afford to make the initial investment as is. Whether that be a Pure Stock driver looking to move up who might be able to swing $20k for a 2006 Rocket roller, and a CT525, or someone looking to move up from Crates who does not have $25-30k laying around to buy a decent motor, but could afford a $10k CT525 -- especially since Chevy will finance them.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[W2Racing09]

engine are out of control because people keep paying for them. no one said you have to goto an expensive builder to buy a 30,000 dollar motor when you can easily do it yourself for less than a 525.

i do 12 to 16 of them a season. guys do well locally and they get great life. do they make huge numbers? no but their drivable, they last much longer and the rebuild costs are low.

i suggest you learn how to do it yourself. unlike shock technology there are lots of off the shelf ways to build a really good powerplant under 10K

I'll probably never get an SLM myself, I'm just someone who works a day job and wants to race on the weekends. I've got some home renovations to do this year and next year I'll probably pick up a Crate or Modified to mess around with. When I comment on this SLM stuff I'm doing so as a huge fan of the division, and as a former promoter who can see the writing on the wall.

[huskerdirt]

Not everyone likes to see the whole field inverted.

I for one enjoy time trials, and if a track were to use time trials to set the top 16 and two consi races for the last 8 spots I would be there every week. Do a redraw of the top four and throw the green.

Thanks,
Jeff.

Why on earth would you pay that consistently every time.

I'll take passing points for 6 heat races, 2 b mains, and A feature all day long.

[W2Racing09]

Why on earth would you pay that consistently every time.

I'll take passing points for 6 heat races, 2 b mains, and A feature all day long.

Because not only does it save the drivers money and does not drag the show out, but on many occasions it makes for better racing. Putting the fast cars in the front means the chance of them getting taken out early in the race are significantly less. It also means that a fast car won't be buried deep in the field while another fast car got lucky in the time trials and heats and invert and got to start up front and pull away from the field. To me a race is better when the best cars on that night are racing for the lead, not struggling to dig themselves out of an invert induced hole.

That is my opinion though, and more so than the argument of engine costs I can understand both sides. I attend races with heat races and some do produce very exciting shows.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[huskerdirt]

engine are out of control because people keep paying for them. no one said you have to goto an expensive builder to buy a 30,000 dollar motor when you can easily do it yourself for less than a 525.

This. Part of the problem in the sport is everybody is b!tching about the costs. Yet conitune to buy the latest and greatest stuff. Everybody involved in the sport should pointing the thumb before they point the finger.

[UMPDream]

How come nobody wants to take the lead on out of control engine expenses? I mean some of these new power plants are approaching $50K and rebuild costs that run as high as a "New" crate CT525. I'm not saying nothing should be done about exotic shocks, but engines seem to be the #800 Gorilla in the room nobody wants to discuss. Don't get me wrong I love horsepower as much as anyone, but this has become obscene.

Re: Out of Control Engine Prices. Lets see, purses are the same as they were 20+ years ago ($10k STARS show) when we ran $145 Afco's. Now shock prices are $5k for a set? As far as Crates and less HP, what do you think is going on with teams who race Crates when a big money purse comes to town? They have a complete different race care, rear end, costing more money than what a super late team is putting into their chassis. You offer a crate show that is greater than $6k to win, what do you think is going to happen.

$50k engines. Well Bloomquist hit the nail on the head last week in Volusia when he said, its time for the drivers to get an increase. Well guess what, where are these $50k engines coming from. You got it boys. RY45. When someone quickly let the wide bore engines get out and now with the RY45 being sold for no less than $50k (based on the cost from RY), yes we have a problem. Now that half or more of the field has RY45's, now what. $50k RY45's, $6k shocks and finally thank goodness we now have a semi useful tire rule.

This is 2015. And there is no reason a sanctioning body such as Lucas and Woo should accept anything less than $20k purses. I agree with Bloomquist in that regard about its time for purses to increase. Instead of running 50+ shows a year, run 35 that pay no less than $20k to win. In 1995 we raced for $10,000 and guess what, the best of the best engines were still $40k. It's time to take control of the sanctions and race at the tracks that can successfully afford a nationally traveling series.

[hucktyson]

I don't know how many more ways I can explain this .... The local guys who are quitting and causing smaller local fields aren't spending 30 or 40 or 50 k for a motor !!! Those guys bought a used 18 degree motor 10 years ago for 15k and spend a couple grand a year to freshen it !!! Those guys don't spend 50k in 5 years let alone on a single engine like you seem to think. The have cut as far as they can cut and got to a point where either they couldn't even afford that or the work required to keep going outweighed the fun they were having . If everyone was buying new RY 45 engines and just melting them for scrap after 1000 laps and buying new yes the ct 525 would be a huge savings ... But it's al predicated on the false narrative that local guys but 50k engines and I guess according to the non racers they just scrap them and buy new every year .... News flash no one does that !!! I agree making everyone run 1600's / lm40's at all tracks AND strictly test them would make cars harder to drive , slow them down and require less HP and not
Be as hard on the other pieces .... But new flash !!! The Hoosier mafia isn't going to let that happen.

[W2Racing09]

Re: Out of Control Engine Prices. Lets see, purses are the same as they were 20+ years ago ($10k STARS show) when we ran $145 Afco's. Now shock prices are $5k for a set? As far as Crates and less HP, what do you think is going on with teams who race Crates when a big money purse comes to town? They have a complete different race care, rear end, costing more money than what a super late team is putting into their chassis. You offer a crate show that is greater than $6k to win, what do you think is going to happen.

$50k engines. Well Bloomquist hit the nail on the head last week in Volusia when he said, its time for the drivers to get an increase. Well guess what, where are these $50k engines coming from. You got it boys. RY45. When someone quickly let the wide bore engines get out and now with the RY45 being sold for no less than $50k (based on the cost from RY), yes we have a problem. Now that half or more of the field has RY45's, now what. $50k RY45's, $6k shocks and finally thank goodness we now have a semi useful tire rule.

This is 2015. And there is no reason a sanctioning body such as Lucas and Woo should accept anything less than $20k purses. I agree with Bloomquist in that regard about its time for purses to increase. Instead of running 50+ shows a year, run 35 that pay no less than $20k to win. In 1995 we raced for $10,000 and guess what, the best of the best engines were still $40k. It's time to take control of the sanctions and race at the tracks that can successfully afford a nationally traveling series.

How many tracks are going to line up to pay $20k to win when the car counts are 30-40? Not many, its not worth it. The same fans turn out for the $10k shows, so the only thing that changes is an extra 5-10 cars might show up.

Maybe.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[UMPDream]

How many tracks are going to line up to pay $20k to win when the car counts are 30-40? Not many, its not worth it. The same fans turn out for the $10k shows, so the only thing that changes is an extra 5-10 cars might show up.

Maybe.

Thanks,
Jeff.

But Jeff, you know yourself that the purses are too low. Even if there was some rule that made Iron blocks the only option, the elite would still run Titanium rods for an advantage. The point is, the tracks (business owners) have it made in that "oh, we only have to pay $10k to the winner" and Lucas/Woo will be back each and every year. It cost $$$ to go fast and you know it. We all agree that everything is out of hand and its being magnified because Birky and many other guys are quitting because they honestly cant afford to do it anymore. If it cost more to get to the track than the money you receive from showing up, then how can anyone survive? There has to at least be a possibility to make something. Back in the day, a local team would at least try to make the show to hopefully break even. Well not anymore, because the PURSE paid to start the show doesn't even cover the cost to get there and prepare for the show.

[Pennsboro23]

I don't know how many more ways I can explain this .... The local guys who are quitting and causing smaller local fields aren't spending 30 or 40 or 50 k for a motor !!! Those guys bought a used 18 degree motor 10 years ago for 15k and spend a couple grand a year to freshen it !!! Those guys don't spend 50k in 5 years let alone on a single engine like you seem to think. The have cut as far as they can cut and got to a point where either they couldn't even afford that or the work required to keep going outweighed the fun they were having . If everyone was buying new RY 45 engines and just melting them for scrap after 1000 laps and buying new yes the ct 525 would be a huge savings ... But it's al predicated on the false narrative that local guys but 50k engines and I guess according to the non racers they just scrap them and buy new every year .... News flash no one does that !!! I agree making everyone run 1600's / lm40's at all tracks AND strictly test them would make cars harder to drive , slow them down and require less HP and not
Be as hard on the other pieces .... But new flash !!! The Hoosier mafia isn't going to let that happen.

You truly think the local drivers don't try to spend money on 30-40-50k engines? They try to keep up and they can't. What local tracks have you been around, and why are so many local drivers getting out of the sport? I'm not saying every single local driver go's out and buys a RY engine. However, in the last 5 years there have been numerous drivers that I can account for who have bought these engines. 5 years ago no locals spent that much money on engines, go to your local track and I bet there are a handful of drivers who now have those engines. There's only a handful and they are barely hanging on, and for what? To win $1,200 at best? The locals who can't afford those engines either went down a class or got out of it completely , and that is why local car counts are continuing to drop.

[Necrosis]

I had a 472" SB2 for sale, best of everything, made 890hp, freshend and all, for $4500. It took me a year to sell it. I actually GAVE it away to a 20 year old who wants to race. Don't tell me people can't afford power. I've spent more on a hook**... Ahh, nevermind.

[fastford]

good on necrosis, this thread is sounding more and more like Washington dc, lets penalize the ones with money, which I don't have much of, but I am able to build my own engines and don't want to be penalized and given a disadvantage to someone that is spending more on a crate engine, whats fair about that?

[W2Racing09]

Fastford, how would you be penalized? If racing is to be a sport where only someone who knows how to build there own engine can race then have fun racing against 5 cars at the track. Not everyone has that knowledge. Increasingly it is those in White Collar jobs (like myself) who are interested in this sport. We know enough to make adjustments, and change suspension components, etc. but I would not be putting together my own engine ever. I either have to pay someone $20k or more to build one that can keep up or I have to run a Crate. You certainly are not at a disadvantage to someone buying a sealed engine that does not even make 600hp.