Prolly why I detest unions.....

[15D]

Sure he got us into a war we should have never been in. A war he lied about to get us there. I sure would like to know what Colin Powell would really have to say about it one day.

Lay out the lie. Specifically how you know for sure that Bush knew there weren't WMD's still in Iraq prior to our invasion in '03. There is plenty of evidence that our intelligence community told him, and I quote a specific instance; "it;s a slam-dunk that Iraq has WMD's." This is a quote that I can find in Bob Woodward's book about Bush as he was in the room when the CIA Director gave that answer to Bush when asked about WMD's in Iraq.

Inferences will not cut if, specific information from only a credible non-biased site only.

[kidrock]

Lay out the lie. Specifically how you know for sure that Bush knew there weren't WMD's still in Iraq prior to our invasion in '03. There is plenty of evidence that our intelligence community told him, and I quote a specific instance; "it;s a slam-dunk that Iraq has WMD's." This is a quote that I can find in Bob Woodward's book about Bush as he was in the room when the CIA Director gave that answer to Bush when asked about WMD's in Iraq.

Inferences will not cut if, specific information from only a credible non-biased site only.

and guess Bob Woodward was wrong wasn't he. I would post a link but, it will be shot down by you right wingers on here as not valid like always so a waste of my time and yours and you know it. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out they did not have them at the time dik said they had them. I'm not saying they did not have WMD because we know they did at one time but, I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on this one. Nice discussion though.

[kidrock]

You can't give good paying jobs. What you can do as a government is foster a business environment that brings in constant economic expansion to the point where relationship between employer and employee shift in favor of the employee. When we reach this point is when wages will increase. Artificially raising the cost of labor just makes our competitors overseas more competitive in the Global Economy.

I know it sucks for the employee, but interference in the market will do nothing but prolong our dismal recovery. Extending un-employment insurance will extent the slow recovery as will raising the minimum wage.

The only way to get us back to what we were use to in the '90's is to put in place pro-business policies. Nothing else will work.

What do you mean you can't give good paying jobs what a crock of chit that is. I would bet everything I have to say it will work.

[15D]

and guess Bob Woodward was wrong wasn't he. I would post a link but, it will be shot down by you right wingers on here as not valid like always so a waste of my time and yours and you know it. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out they did not have them at the time dik said they had them. I'm not saying they did not have WMD because we know they did at one time but, I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on this one. Nice discussion though.

Woodward is a reporter/author and was part of a conversation with the CIA Director and the President while he was writing a biography about Bush, hell he has it on tape and the Bush Administration allowed him to go public with it. My point being that they were certain that the WMD's were their at the beginning of the invasion.

Thus it isn't a lie. I don't know what else I can do to get through to you.

Did we go to war with Spain in 1898 over a lie because we thought they blew the Battleship Maine up in Havana Harbor when we found out years latter through forensic science that the Battleship blew up because of a Coal Bunker fire? Hell no, we just got it wrong.

[15D]

What do you mean you can't give good paying jobs what a crock of chit that is. I would bet everything I have to say it will work.

It was tried in 1934 during the Great Depression by FDR. Along with wage controls was price controls. It was these two things that sent us into a depression rather than a long recession, which the economy was picking up from.

In short, their is empirical evidence that arbitrarily raising wages will have a negative effect on the economy.

[kidrock]

So your telling me with these low wages and no extra money for people to spend things are going to get better. Um interesting. Ok I guess I'm wrong then.

[Bubstr]

First off, I think it is fair game to bring up the deficits. However, we did have the longest expansion period in our history following the implementation of his policies. Roughly '84 - '08.

Now, your mantra about lost revenue has no basis in facts. Revenue brought into the Treasury during the Reagan Administration consistently increased year to year despite the lowering of the Tax Rates. It is the increased economic activity caused by the possibility of greater returns that drives and economy to expand past the normal growth as adjusted for population growth. Just as increased regulation and taxation retards growth. Basic Macroeconomics.

I think if you do your homework you will find that Regan did not give the middle class a tax cut. What ever changes in the tax code was off set by a 7% raise in FICA, (social security contributions) and raised the ceiling to 150k. This taxes the poorer tax payer at a larger rate than a rich one and as there is no lock box for SS contributions, it goes right into the general fund.

Where you guys still living at mom and dad's and not working then? Your employer got hit with half of that tax. That was the starting point of wage stagnation. We where forced to restructure pay incentives just to justify keeping the doors open. Our shop gave the employees a cut in pay that they never got back to this day. This was commonplace. Where you too young to remember the good old days?

[LITE-INN]

So your telling me with these low wages and no extra money for people to spend things are going to get better. Um interesting. Ok I guess I'm wrong then.

yep the employers will hire less people

[Clayton_Wetter]

Woodward is a reporter/author and was part of a conversation with the CIA Director and the President while he was writing a biography about Bush, hell he has it on tape and the Bush Administration allowed him to go public with it. My point being that they were certain that the WMD's were their at the beginning of the invasion.

Thus it isn't a lie. I don't know what else I can do to get through to you.

Did we go to war with Spain in 1898 over a lie because we thought they blew the Battleship Maine up in Havana Harbor when we found out years latter through forensic science that the Battleship blew up because of a Coal Bunker fire? Hell no, we just got it wrong.

Totally amazing how some people have to continue to berate Bush and Chaney over that war. Labeling them as liars when the nation lost the WTC's and thousands of people. It seems to be a fabricated cause to stoke their liberal fires and try to gain support for Democrats by simply digging for fault in others. That's the game that use every day. And the citizens that have fallen for it, continue to parrot that narrative.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Meanwhile back to the UNIONS topic, it looks like they are at it again in Washington state. Making their typical bully moves that may drive Boeing out of the state.

http://freebeacon.com/boeing-to-partly-move-production-out-of-washington-state-following-union-vote/

[15D]

So your telling me with these low wages and no extra money for people to spend things are going to get better. Um interesting. Ok I guess I'm wrong then.

Normally lowering taxes is enough to get the economy back into the expansion portion of the business cycle, had that been the case in 2009 we would probably be out of the funk we are in (the derivative market was shored up by TARP, although I'm unhappy with the process, I'm happy for the most part with the outcome.) Now that we've been in it for a long period of time,roughly 5 years, it is going to take more then just cutting taxes to entice business to invest.

It is going to take a Political Party with the backbone to layout a long-term fiscal plan where both businesses and consumers can be become comfortable with spending rather than hoarding/saving money. A few plans that have promise have been laid out in the past few years. IMO the best one was what Romney was proposing, which was essentially to slow the growth of government and to an extent down-size the government along with permanent tax-cuts so the business community will be able to plan for 5-7 years.

Doing the above is absolutely abhorrent to Democrats and with a couple of exceptions none of the current Republicans have the moral fortitude to propose and carry out. Scott Walker in Wisconsin is the only one IMO who could pull this off. Whether or not he is electable is a very good question.

[15D]

I think if you do your homework you will find that Regan did not give the middle class a tax cut. What ever changes in the tax code was off set by a 7% raise in FICA, (social security contributions) and raised the ceiling to 150k. This taxes the poorer tax payer at a larger rate than a rich one and as there is no lock box for SS contributions, it goes right into the general fund.

Where you guys still living at mom and dad's and not working then? Your employer got hit with half of that tax. That was the starting point of wage stagnation. We where forced to restructure pay incentives just to justify keeping the doors open. Our shop gave the employees a cut in pay that they never got back to this day. This was commonplace. Where you too young to remember the good old days?

I was serving in the military all but a few months of Reagan's two terms. Yes, that last major changes to SS happened during Reagan's first term. It took less than 20 years of the Great Society to turn SS from taking in more than it paid out to paying out more than it was taking in. Something had to give. If you want to make the case that a the cap on income subject to FICA Taxation should be raised you will not be alone and it will more than likely happen within the next few years. More than likely it will go hand-in-hand with means testing. Meaning that those who pay the maximum amount into SS will not receive payments when they become eligible or in the very least will receive reduced benefits. To me this is unethical and immoral, as it's simply stealing from one to give to another. All who pay should receive benefits based upon what they paid in.

Yes, businesses since the early '80's have to match with-holdings for SS and Medicaid/Medicare, and what it did was to increase the cost of an employee's compensation package without putting any money into the employee's pocket. Not too terribly different then what Obamacare is causing today and will exasperate through 2014 as the employer mandate may be enforced.

[15D]

Meanwhile back to the UNIONS topic, it looks like they are at it again in Washington state. Making their typical bully moves that may drive Boeing out of the state.

http://freebeacon.com/boeing-to-part...ng-union-vote/

I'm all for private sector employee's organizing if they wish too. If they and management cannot make the business profitable, then they both lose.

No bailouts though, corporate welfare has to come to an end.

[Clayton_Wetter]

I'm not against the fair principles of having unions either. But when they begin to get unreasonable and act like they own the company they work for then it's a turnoff. Especially when they become obstructive and violent.

[kidrock]

Normally lowering taxes is enough to get the economy back into the expansion portion of the business cycle, had that been the case in 2009 we would probably be out of the funk we are in (the derivative market was shored up by TARP, although I'm unhappy with the process, I'm happy for the most part with the outcome.) Now that we've been in it for a long period of time,roughly 5 years, it is going to take more then just cutting taxes to entice business to invest.

It is going to take a Political Party with the backbone to layout a long-term fiscal plan where both businesses and consumers can be become comfortable with spending rather than hoarding/saving money. A few plans that have promise have been laid out in the past few years. IMO the best one was what Romney was proposing, which was essentially to slow the growth of government and to an extent down-size the government along with permanent tax-cuts so the business community will be able to plan for 5-7 years.

Doing the above is absolutely abhorrent to Democrats and with a couple of exceptions none of the current Republicans have the moral fortitude to propose and carry out. Scott Walker in Wisconsin is the only one IMO who could pull this off. Whether or not he is electable is a very good question.

Here where I c the problem yes business may hire but, it won't be here. They will hire in third world country with extremely low wages but, before they are going to be able to that they are going to need someone in this country to buy their product and in order for people to do that they are going to need a decent wage in order to have the extra money to spend.

Here where I c the other problem in order for any President to get things done anymore they are going to need to control the house,senate and the presidency and if they do not well I don't c much getting done. I don't care if the is Scott Walker or whoever it is.