Tiregate lawsuit?

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  • W2Racing09
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 1691

    #406
    Originally posted by Buckeye SLM
    I've read all of your posts and I'd like to offer some advice and get back to everyone complaining about something else. So here's some simple advice as both someone with over 30 years in the racing business, a racing advocate & fan, and a licensed attorney in several states. 1- Thank you for your dedication to a sport we all love and don't want to see go away. I'm sure promoting races is NOT easy, so thank you for your hard work. 2- However, failing to do your due diligence for whatever reason, isn't going to cut it. How many tracks have had fires this year but no water on site? So you did not have time to inspect the fire truck will be your excuse when you're sued for someone dying in a fire? Or you're willing to just accept a track owner's word that everything is ok and their insurance is current and enough coverage for any potential incidents? The same goes with assuming the track had their scales certified. They are also required to have their certifications posted on the scales themselves, just like when you go get gas the next time, look at your pump and the inspection sticker posted on the pump. Or do you just want to take the gas station owner's word that you did pump 20 gallons of fuel in your car but your gas light is still on and you can't even crank your car? 3- OH DOES REQUIRE scales to be certified in any commercial transaction. Not everything is as simple as weights and measures, sometimes things fall under the Commercial Code for a reason because they are part of a commercial transaction. Or they are in both sections of the state code because the state legislators try to keep from having an abundance of uncertainties. 4- Under the law, every word has a specific meaning/definition that is only up for interpretation by the courts, not just any person. Hence, not following the law or interpreting it in your words, most of the time leads to breaking said law. Or if someone has a different interpretation of the law, then they have every single right under our Constitution to sue you for getting an official interpretation of the law as it applies to their specific situation.....hence we have lawsuits.
    I've deleted my posts in this thread -- the discussion got off topic and became an argument for page after page which is what I've been trying to avoid on here since a few incidents last year. I have a few questions and some thoughts:

    1. ) Does OH specifically require all race tracks to have their scales certified? Or is it lawyer talk (as technically a race can be considered a commercial transaction). If it isn't spelled out directly and made clear that all tracks must have their scales certified then I would be willing to bet the vast majority of them don't get them certified.

    2. ) As a lawyer, and a race fan do you consider these lawsuits to be good for racing? I can't imagine them being good for anyone (other than maybe the select few drivers with rich owners who have the means to absorb all the additional costs that will occur when tracks need to hire lawyers to look over every press release, rule book and entry form)

    My issue isn't even necessarily with the scales, our rules are easy enough for most cars to meet that someone would have to make a really big mistake to be illegal. My concern is with the lawsuits and the continued mindset here that I've been wronged so I'll sue over it. It will certainly make me think twice about DQing for anything. Did I write my rule book perfectly and have it reviewed by a lawyer to make sure the deck width rule can't possibly be interpreted any other way because of word meanings defined by law, etc? Same for entry forms, track agreements, and more. It is hard enough as a very small series to even save up enough throughout the year to pay for web hosting, let alone to hire a lawyer to look over everything. I'm not saying anybody is wrong, I'm just saying that the racing many people enjoy isn't going to be able to exist if we have to pay out a ton of money to hire a lawyer to check everything.

    That is my biggest concern about everything, it is just going to show more drivers that there is this avenue as a way around tech or whatever other rules. If they win people will follow in their footsteps and as Kelley said on DoD today there could be a time very soon when we have to find something to fill the void left by racing. Once we start seeing lawsuits thrown all over the place people like myself, and other track promoters are just going to shut out doors and close up shop. I am not a lawyer, and in the past that wasn't a requirement of being involved in race promotion. But I guess it is now, and like engineers getting involved in DLM chassis design it is bad for the sport and will certainly be counted among the contributors to its death when we are all sitting around in 10 years wondering what happened.

    Thanks,
    Jeff.

    Comment

    • Cardirt0
      Banned
      • May 2007
      • 5271

      #407
      Originally posted by W2Racing09 View Post
      I've deleted my posts in this thread -- the discussion got off topic and became an argument for page after page which is what I've been trying to avoid on here since a few incidents last year. I have a few questions and some thoughts:

      1. ) Does OH specifically require all race tracks to have their scales certified? Or is it lawyer talk (as technically a race can be considered a commercial transaction). If it isn't spelled out directly and made clear that all tracks must have their scales certified then I would be willing to bet the vast majority of them don't get them certified.

      2. ) As a lawyer, and a race fan do you consider these lawsuits to be good for racing? I can't imagine them being good for anyone (other than maybe the select few drivers with rich owners who have the means to absorb all the additional costs that will occur when tracks need to hire lawyers to look over every press release, rule book and entry form)

      My issue isn't even necessarily with the scales, our rules are easy enough for most cars to meet that someone would have to make a really big mistake to be illegal. My concern is with the lawsuits and the continued mindset here that I've been wronged so I'll sue over it. It will certainly make me think twice about DQing for anything. Did I write my rule book perfectly and have it reviewed by a lawyer to make sure the deck width rule can't possibly be interpreted any other way because of word meanings defined by law, etc? Same for entry forms, track agreements, and more. It is hard enough as a very small series to even save up enough throughout the year to pay for web hosting, let alone to hire a lawyer to look over everything. I'm not saying anybody is wrong, I'm just saying that the racing many people enjoy isn't going to be able to exist if we have to pay out a ton of money to hire a lawyer to check everything.

      That is my biggest concern about everything, it is just going to show more drivers that there is this avenue as a way around tech or whatever other rules. If they win people will follow in their footsteps and as Kelley said on DoD today there could be a time very soon when we have to find something to fill the void left by racing. Once we start seeing lawsuits thrown all over the place people like myself, and other track promoters are just going to shut out doors and close up shop. I am not a lawyer, and in the past that wasn't a requirement of being involved in race promotion. But I guess it is now, and like engineers getting involved in DLM chassis design it is bad for the sport and will certainly be counted among the contributors to its death when we are all sitting around in 10 years wondering what happened.

      Thanks,
      Jeff.
      I do know if its a Fair ground it must be by Law....and if they dont they can not get there Fair Lic.. I would think that its the same for all tracks cause there a pay out by Ohio law...I have read about 30 pages of the Ohio laws from there web site...
      Last edited by Cardirt0; 08-29-2016, 11:45 PM.

      Comment

      • old fan
        Banned
        • Jan 2016
        • 4191

        #408
        AS FAR AS SCALING GOES THIS OFF ELDORA WEBSITE All cars are subject to random inspections and/or weight checks at any time during a competition event. Failure to abide will result in admittance of guilt and disqualification from that event.

        Comment

        • wfo2007
          Senior Member
          • May 2007
          • 600

          #409
          Originally posted by slmcrewchief99 View Post
          Nobody ever answered my question from 4 pages back. Did yall ignore it just for kicks or because it was true.

          Bleedsbluer2 I could be wrong but after every car times in, they cross the scales. I will use the Mag at Columbus Ms as an example. The State Series just ran Saturday there. Qualified in pairs and as EACH car exits the track, the go straight to the scales. If you don't weigh, you don't get a time.

          I am still in belief that Bloomer changed engines Saturday. Was already in the show for Saturday. Thought he had no reason to scale but his engine change caused him to be light. Went across after the feature and that's when it came apparent to himself and everyone else that he was too light.
          I think you are thinking of Babb from several years ago. He made the race and had to change engines then won and was found light at the scales. McDowell won I believe.

          Comment

          • old fan
            Banned
            • Jan 2016
            • 4191

            #410
            this race program will be run under Eldora Speedway (Eldora) rules, and in signing an Official Entry Form (OEF) or taking part in any of the events described in this OEF, all competitors acknowledge that they have received, read and understand all of the rules and regulations associated with the event, and hereby agree to abide by all official Eldora decisions and regulations. Any deviation of these rules and regulations may result in fines or penalties including disqualification from the event.

            Comment

            • old fan
              Banned
              • Jan 2016
              • 4191

              #411
              The management reserves the right to suspend, disqualify, bar, and/or fine (with payment as a condition of further competition) any participants who, in their discretion, are engaged in misconduct, and whose presence or conduct is deemed not to be in the best interest of Eldora Speedway. The duration and severity of any such action shall be determined solely by the management

              Comment

              • old fan
                Banned
                • Jan 2016
                • 4191

                #412
                Eldora Speedway is private property. The management reserves the right to refuse entry to any individual(s) and/or vehicle(s) onto the property and further reserves the right to eject any individual(s) and/or vehicle(s) from the premises at any time, if in their discretion, determines their presence or conduct is not in the best interest of Eldora Speedway.

                Comment

                • old fan
                  Banned
                  • Jan 2016
                  • 4191

                  #413
                  * dirtcar ump minimum post-race weight of car with driver is 2,300 lbs as weighed on track scale*** eldora policy – one roll off & re-scale attempt only – except in rare instances (eiri

                  Comment

                  • Cardirt0
                    Banned
                    • May 2007
                    • 5271

                    #414
                    Originally posted by old fan View Post
                    Eldora Speedway is private property. The management reserves the right to refuse entry to any individual(s) and/or vehicle(s) onto the property and further reserves the right to eject any individual(s) and/or vehicle(s) from the premises at any time, if in their discretion, determines their presence or conduct is not in the best interest of Eldora Speedway.
                    I Have been there were they have let you in and did not charge you, then they have you leave and you can get back in after paying .. so they can not clam that they are Private Property is a place you live in ..If they charge for you to get in it is no longer P.P. Called a Lawyer and asked....and hes good said if they ask me too leave it better be a good reason or I should call him and he will Own them....

                    Comment

                    • old fan
                      Banned
                      • Jan 2016
                      • 4191

                      #415
                      some does live there or has in the past , and do you really want to push your luck

                      Comment

                      • Cardirt0
                        Banned
                        • May 2007
                        • 5271

                        #416
                        Originally posted by old fan View Post
                        some does live there or has in the past , and do you really want to push your luck
                        only the house would be P.P. then....I have be for (Push my Luck) My lawyer is real good...The 2 times I have used him one was a 45.000 pay day the other was 25.000 pay day and that was after a 15% take by him...

                        Comment

                        • fryefan
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2007
                          • 3547

                          #417
                          Originally posted by Cardirt0 View Post
                          I Have been there were they have let you in and did not charge you, then they have you leave and you can get back in after paying .. so they can not clam that they are Private Property is a place you live in ..If they charge for you to get in it is no longer P.P. Called a Lawyer and asked....and hes good said if they ask me too leave it better be a good reason or I should call him and he will Own them....
                          Try that and see how it works out for you (you won't like the result).

                          Comment

                          • fryefan
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2007
                            • 3547

                            #418
                            Originally posted by formercrewguy View Post
                            WRG will win. When you sign your name on the sheet at the pit booth, you are entering a contract. You agree to adhere to THEIR rules. The gang of 5 violated those rules. The end.
                            It is as simple as that.

                            Comment

                            • Cardirt0
                              Banned
                              • May 2007
                              • 5271

                              #419
                              Originally posted by fryefan View Post
                              Try that and see how it works out for you (you won't like the result).
                              Thats what they said about the Gays at the bake shop .. what it cost them O yea over 1 Million bucks... You say you cant come in it Better be a real good reason...Its not the 90s no more....
                              ....
                              Let me add this in ask the last person that said I cant come in 25000 bucks Plus 15% for Law .and court cost...You ant going too let me in you better have a good reason...
                              Last edited by Cardirt0; 08-30-2016, 12:50 AM.

                              Comment

                              • Cardirt0
                                Banned
                                • May 2007
                                • 5271

                                #420
                                Originally posted by fryefan View Post
                                It is as simple as that.
                                No its not..But the track STILL has too go by State Laws.. and they did not...

                                Comment

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