Final appeal

[Car Biz]

Not if the tires are cover in red clay.. or you set them next too the car but you still use a Cleaner on them.. we did for years...I have washed the car and tires on and off over a 100 times.. used Cleaner on both every time......
Or you have 1 hour to clean the car cause you heading out to race sat after a fri night...

+1 I bet I doped tires to and didn't even know it. We used orange solve and g900 to get all mud of the cars and tires. That orange stuff was the only thing that took the black streaks off the hauler. Hell maybe we also gained two tenths qualifying too樂

[Barbecueboy]

The tire rule is pretty defined; No altering of tire, must meet manufacturer provided benchmark by an independent laboratory.

Unless the teams (and sanctioning body) get to the point where the tires are in the possession of Hoosier, mounted by Hoosier and then immediately put on cars and the cars go on the track, there will always be some kind of question. But, that means racing will be much more expensive (payroll for people to take care of the tires at the track, teams will have to buy new tires for every event instead of using them for multiple events, and odds are they would go to one tire compound period and no tire size differences). That series already exists and it's called NASCAR....

That's one way of doing it.........and your right, it would be expensive......but there are others that have been mentioned that are a much more plausible example.

I just want to clear this up once and for all.........I know what the rules say......I also know that people dope tires and do other nefarious stuff to their cars in an effort to cheat.
I am not nor have I ever said that I'm naive to any of that stuff going on........what my issue is with all of this is that there is big room for a list of doubt and what ifs when it comes to tires.

And if you are going to call somebody out on something then you better be dam sure you are doing it right.........it's not like stuffing a camera down the intake or doing a pump test where you can see right away if someone is cheating in a certain class.

Do I think that some of those drivers at the dream pushed the envelope and got caught.....yep.

Do I think all 5 of them did? No way in hell.

The tire rule itself .........it's pretty clear what it says and what is allowed, that part is definitely cut and dry or black and white.
You just can't have a rule that has so many what ifs in the scenario.........and then be so certain in the results to where you slander a guys name and the way he makes his living if you turn out to be wrong.

What if the tire comes into contact with something in shipping from Hoosier.....from the distributor( who has multiple contaminants around at any given time in proximity to the tires if they are like most fuel/tire distributors.

What if it comes into contact with something in the pits somebody has dumped out last week.......ground into the tire on the track from another tainted tire that laid the rubber down.....was washed with the wrong detergent at the track or shop.

What if the tire company sent the wrong benchmark to the testers.......

What if somebody like a Scott Autry were never allowed to appeal some bad info that was sent to blue ridge labs by the tire manufacturer.

What if the collector of the sample had something on his hands or body could have gotten on the tire.......( do you or any of us really know what will set off a tire as hot , other than the obvious)

What if the measuring instruments at the only lab they use aren't cleaned , purged or maintained properly?

What if you have someone who is less than ethical in the mix and just has a hard on for somebody.......it's not like the results are published with what was wrong with the tire and what they found or didn't find in it............did not meet benchmark could mean multiple things.......and like in Scott autrys case, it meant appeal it , get some people involved that knew better and then go collect 30k after the mistake was discovered.

All the above are unlikely ( except for the Autry example), but they are all very possible and I think it's just wrong to hang that dirty rotten cheater label on someone without being 100% sure.

I guess it's just me?

[Barbecueboy]

This process of checking tires is not complicated. Only a few people want to try to make it out to be rocket science. It's very simple. Take the sample, put it in a sealed package, send it to lab, lab tech opens and puts in machine and gets the results. It is not the lab, Hoosier, UMP, or anybody else's job to prove who altered the tire. If the tire was used on accused drivers car then they are DQ'ed. There is a benchmark it has to match and if it don't the lab says so. The lab does not say this driver is a cheater or that he himself altered the tire. They just say the tire did not match. These drivers broke a rule not a law.

No matter what tire checking process is used someone will say it is flawed. If they try to improve the one they are using now or not is up to them. I am fine with the current one.

Do they wear gloves every time........where does the sample go after its taken,does it go right away or does it sit around in the trailer or in some bodies glovebox until they decide to mail it in?
Is it possible that the evidence bags are contaminated? Are they kept sterile at all times?where are they stored and or purchased at?

Are the spectrometers at the lab purged and cleaned from the previous samples that have been tested in it?

The mechanics of it are exactly like you say...........the science of it is a little more complicated.

I will never ever subscribe to the theory that all racers are cheaters like the players in this debate have indicated.............it's just not true.

[Barbecueboy]

ijust wish they could check before the race not after

They can, but that would require tweeking the system a little bit..........it's a suggestion that has been discussed over the years.

[ClampedUp]

To the guy that think waivers are the legal end all be all I suggest you ask the WoO how that waiver protected them when Doug Wolfgang took them to task after his accident and won big, or ask Lernerville Speedway how that waiver held up in court when they DQ'd a driver for being light on the scales after winning and he took them to task and won, and various other tracks and sanctions both local and national who have also lost even though that "waiver" was signed.

[Cardirt0]

To the guy that think waivers are the legal end all be all I suggest you ask the WoO how that waiver protected them when Doug Wolfgang took them to task after his accident and won big, or ask Lernerville Speedway how that waiver held up in court when they DQ'd a driver for being light on the scales after winning and he took them to task and won, and various other tracks and sanctions both local and national who have also lost even though that "waiver" was signed.

Wolfgang was My Driver when i use too go to Sprint races .. They said he had NO change too win ... And he Cleaned there Clocks...He more won on that there was not good enuff Fire eq.. at the track to be safe.. But the waiver, Was not close too stop him cleaning there Clock...

[dirtdobber45]

I don't think World Racing group, really cares who doped the tires. You can dope thousands of tires, but until you race on them, you have broken no rules. They only care if the benchmark was solid and that these tires didn't match that benchmark. End of story. Black and white. Not knowing the tires where doped is not a measure of innocents, just a measure of ignorance.

As it has been stated if ever tom d1ck and harry have been in contact with that tire before a team gets them how does the team know what has been done to that tire? Are teams suppose to take samples and send them off before they use that tire? Or are teams going to have to buy their on spectrometer and test them theirselves before they race them? That would be ignorance. And the cost...wow no little team would survive

[dirtdobber45]

And obtw...all you bleeding hearts that are on here saying "they should confess" let me tell what a Senator once told me...Deny deny deny any wrong doing and if theres pictures involved...deny it even more!!! LMAO

[Barbecueboy]

I'll save you a seat.

I'll drive , you can have the seat on the shortbus all to yourself......like normal.

[Barbecueboy]

To the guy that think waivers are the legal end all be all I suggest you ask the WoO how that waiver protected them when Doug Wolfgang took them to task after his accident and won big, or ask Lernerville Speedway how that waiver held up in court when they DQ'd a driver for being light on the scales after winning and he took them to task and won, and various other tracks and sanctions both local and national who have also lost even though that "waiver" was signed.

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....you're going to wake the chronically ignorant adult tooth fairy recipients.

And their pet unicorns too!!!!

[Snake X3]

And obtw...all you bleeding hearts that are on here saying "they should confess" let me tell what a Senator once told me...Deny deny deny any wrong doing and if theres pictures involved...deny it even more!!! LMAO

Bill Clinton was a Governor. They don't have pictures on Hillary yet.

[Barbecueboy]

Bill Clinton was a Governor. They don't have pictures on Hillary yet.

She looks like the part of the Polaroid you tear off????

[dirtdobber45]

Bill Clinton was a Governor. They don't have pictures on Hillary yet.

LMAO LMAO I hope they dont ever have any pics of her...scary LMAO

[dirtdobber45]

I wouldnt put her pic in my garden to scare off the crows...mite kill everything I got planted lol

[plunks7]

This process of checking tires is not complicated. Only a few people want to try to make it out to be rocket science. It's very simple. Take the sample, put it in a sealed package, send it to lab, lab tech opens and puts in machine and gets the results. It is not the lab, Hoosier, UMP, or anybody else's job to prove who altered the tire. If the tire was used on accused drivers car then they are DQ'ed. There is a benchmark it has to match and if it don't the lab says so. The lab does not say this driver is a cheater or that he himself altered the tire. They just say the tire did not match. These drivers broke a rule not a law.

No matter what tire checking process is used someone will say it is flawed. If they try to improve the one they are using now or not is up to them. I am fine with the current one.

Then why in the hell don't they ( WOO, UMP and LOLMS) have a traveling LAB. Find out that night!!! Now that would be SIMPLE.